The hardest part about being a gay dad has nothing to do with raising your children. Sure, at two years old, my twins are already curious as to what a Mommy is and why we don’t have one. But explaining it to them is easy. My kids are smart, open-minded and I’m reasonably sure they’re not homophobic. It’s explaining my family to other people that gets tricky.
There are a lot of questions that can lead there. “Where’s your wife?” “Where’s their mommy?” “I wish my husband would take the kids to the park sometimes.” Or, when I’m out with my partner, the one we get is, “Which one of you is the dad?”
We could lie, but what kind of message would that send to our kids? That there’s something wrong with our family and we have to keep it secret? A much better message for them to get is that strangers can be clueless sometimes, and that it’s our job to educate them.
“We’re both the dad,” we say. And then… we wait. The next move is theirs.
Before I became a gay dad, I worried a lot about where such a simple statement might lead. But now that I’ve been at it for two years, I realize people are fairly predictable. In all that time, I’ve only gotten a few different responses when I’ve outed our family. Everyone we’ve met, without exception, has fallen into one of 5 categories.
These are the 5 people you meet as a gay dad…
1. Your New BFF
Reaction: Unbridled enthusiasm
Your New BFF
Within five seconds of knowing me and my partner, Drew, these people want to hug us, add us on Facebook, tweet @ us, invite us over for Thanksgiving dinner and beat the crap out of any homophobes who get in our way. They think it’s SOOOOO cool and our kids are SOOOO lucky, and they want to point us out to their own children. “Look, Caden! This is their dad, and this is their other dad! Isn’t that great?”
You can see their minds working. “Oh my God, I saw that report on World News Tonight, but I didn’t think we’d ever meet one of these families ourselves. We better hang on to these guys. Who knows when the next ones will come along.”
Or more likely, they’re just assuming that we get discriminated against or judged constantly because of who we are, so they want to make up for it by being as over-the-top pleasant as possible.
I’ll take all the New BFFs I can get. In most cases, we’re just as enthusiastic back to them. We tell them our whole story. We had a surrogate. She’s like an aunt now. Our egg donor is also an aunt, but then again, she would’ve been anyway because she’s Drew’s sister, Susie. (And if they need it spelled out, yes, I donated the sperm.)
New BFFs are by far the most common people we meet, which is one of the reasons I’m glad I live in Los Angeles.
2. Jaded Allies
Reaction: Feigned indifference.
The Jaded Ally
These people are cool with us, too — just maybe a little too cool. They’re very quick to let us know that they’re familiar with other gay dads – tons of them. They’ll say something like, “Oh, right. There’s this couple at our kids’ school with two dads. Matthew and Alan.” Or “Yeah, my daughter’s best friend has two moms. They came to our house last month.”
Jaded Allies are less worried about making us feel comfortable with them and more concerned with how they come across to us. They don’t want to be seen as square or even the tiniest bit surprised, so they treat us like we’re no big deal.
They’re thinking, “Yeah, I saw that report on World News Tonight. These won’t be the last gay parents I meet. Better play it cool.”
Maybe they really do know a thousand other gay dads, or maybe they just want us to think they do. Sometimes we talk to these people longer and they show a genuine curiosity and kindness toward us. Other times, we just move on.
Jaded Allies are allies, and that’s good enough for us.
3. Closet Homophobes
Reaction: Cordial avoidance.
The Closet Homophobe
These people are not OK with us, but at least they’re polite. They’ll say something like, “Oh, how nice. Well, I need to go over here now.” Then they’ll quietly slip away to pray or throw up or something.
They, too, might want us to think they’re cool with who we are. But in their case, we’re not buying it. You can see the exasperated looks on their faces, the ones that say, “This is what I get for asking questions” or “Freakin’ Los Angeles! I should’ve known!”
These are the people who fell for the argument that Prop 8 would require elementary schools to swap out math and social studies for courses on the logistics of sodomy. “What they do in their bedroom is their business,” they’re thinking. “But they better not start doing it in front of my kids here at Rite-Aid!”
The worst thing that can happen to a Closet Homophobe is for their kids to start asking questions. “But where’s their Mommy, Mommy?” They’ll stammer or ignore the kid, maybe outright lie. “She’s not here right now.” Anything to keep their kids from being exposed to the gays too young. They may even plead with their eyes, begging us to play along, for the sake of the children.
But their kids aren’t stupid, and neither are mine. So whenever the issue comes up, I’m very clear that there is no Mommy in our family, never has been and never will be. I know that’s likely to stir up some more questions in your kids’ impressionable little minds, and frankly I don’t care how you choose to answer them once you’re out of our earshot. But while you’re talking to me, you’re going to hear the pride I take in my family, and my kids are going to know that I’ve got their back.
4. The Head Scratchers.
Reaction: Utter confusion
The Head Scratcher
This is the most entertaining reaction, and probably the second most common one we get. No matter how much we explain ourselves, some people are completely baffled by our family, like the Honda salesman we visited when we were shopping for a minivan.
“We’re having twins,” we explained.
“Well, your wife is going to love the Odyssey.”
“No, they’re his twins and my twins.”
“That’s great! So who’s the minivan for?”
“Both of us.”
“Well, it’s the perfect car for you and your brother. There’s plenty of room for you, your kids and your wives.”
I have no idea whether this guy was homophobic, or what he could possibly have been imagining went on in my house, but I know he desperately wanted to make that sale.
Then there was the guy at the Thai restaurant, who saw me and Drew each schlepping a newborn in a car seat to our table, while Drew’s sister strolled casually behind us.
“Are you the mom?” he asked her.
“No, they have two dads,” she answered.
“No two dads!” he insisted.
“Yes,” Drew said. “I’m one dad, and he’s the other dad.”
“No two dads!”
“Yes, two dads. We’re both listed on their birth certificates.”
“No two dads! No two dads! NO TWO DADS!”
I don’t know where that man is right now, but I’m pretty sure he’s still shaking his head adamantly and shouting, “No two dads!” at whoever will listen.
5. The Moral Crusaders
Reaction: Salvation mode
The Moral Crusader
These are the people we dread. They’re not happy just to stay quiet. They want you, their kids and anyone within shouting radius to know that Satan is in their midst. They’re all too happy to point their fingers and condemn you as the reason for the breakdown of the American family, if not of society as a whole.
There’s no need to guess what’s going on in their heads, because they lay it all out. They’ll spew those “men laying with men” Bible verses, they’ll tell you you shouldn’t be in the military, they’ll want to see whatever legal documents you can produce to prove your guardianship or threaten to call Child Protective Services and report you.
They’re every gay dad’s worst nightmare. But here’s the good thing about the Moral Crusaders… they don’t exist.
At least, I haven’t run into any. Not yet.
Maybe they’re out there somewhere. Maybe gay dads in less progressive parts of America have to deal with them all the time. But to me, they’re boogeymen, who might very well just be figments of my imagination.
Before my kids were born, I was convinced I would face them all the time. But rather than let that scare me off from parenthood altogether, I did the alternative. I prepared for the worst.
I’ve been working on some great little speeches to defend my family against the kooks out there. Whenever I meet someone new, before I find out which of these 5 categories they’re going to fall into, I’ve always got my comebacks ready to go, just in case I’m about to be faced with my first Moral Crusader. Who knows what they look like? They can take many forms.
I don’t want to speak for all gay families, but if you see my partner and me out with our twins, by all means, come say hello. We really do like meeting people and sharing our story, and it makes our kids think we’re celebrities.
As for which of the five categories you fall into, it really doesn’t matter to me. Whatever your reaction is, I’ll be ready.
jerry-mahoney.com 
hilarious! thanks for brightening my day!
I’m a gay dad myself and I completely agree with your classifications. I’ve met all the different types as well. Luckily, I’ve also never met Type #5 and I live in Texas. Most people seem genuinely happy for us and start talking about how kids change your life.
Glad I stumbled upon your blog. Love to hear about other gay dads’ experiences.
Thanks for writing. I love hearing from other gay dads. And I’m very glad those Texans are treating you well. The more families like ours there are, in more parts of the country and the world, the more tolerant everyone will be. Keep in touch!
I got a kick out of your blog -I’m not a gay dad – I’m a straight mom who is married to my children’s father. I’m also Catholic and no don’t worry I’m not a crusader – I follow my religion I don’t believe in telling other people what to do – I’m not your BFF either – I’m simply a mom who believes that the best home you can provide for your children is a home of love. If you and Drew love one another and your children know they are loved then you’ve already accomplished so much as a parent. From one parent to another I wish you all the wonderful joys children bring to your heart!
I live in Austin (granted, it’s oasis compared to the rest of Texas) and I’d like to think of kids having two moms or two dads as another normal. I had 8 friends/fam at the delivery of my daughter and 2 of those 8 were partners and about-to-be moms. And those sweet gals exchanged the favor and let me witness the birth of their son. I heart me some gays and gayelles. Can there by a 6th classification? Being happy that you’re happy but not so underexposed that we act funny?
Great post, BTdubs. Well written and witty.
This is a riot, and really close to home for me. I’m a transman, and when people find out, they fall into an almost identical set of categories.
The girl at Whole Foods who carded me for a bottle of wine reacted like a New BFF: “Omg, really? I saw a special about this on 20/20! That is so great, so cool, never would have guessed!”
The nurse checking me in to an imaging center fell into the Head Scratcher category, in which she had all my paperwork in front of her and was inputting it into their system, typing my legal name out and everything, before asking where the insurance card holder was. When i told her that the name on the paperwork was me, she did something that’s never happened to me before: she assumed that i had really cruel parents who gave me a girl’s name.
I haven’t really run into crazy screaming bible-thumpers either, but i think that’s mostly because i’m just not around folks like that in my day-to-day life.
Thanks for the laugh. I love that she mentioned 20/20! I would imagine you’ve run into a lot of head scratchers – lucky you, because those are always a hoot. 🙂
Thanks for sharing your story. Glad to hear you haven’t met any haters either and that you have a sense of humor about it.
Is there a sixth? Other gay couples who want to know “how did you get the kids?”
Yes, we’ve run into a couple of those, too. I always enjoy that, because I love helping people who want kids. That’s one of the reasons I started this blog.
What about the “Hey, we’re gay dads/moms too”!?
Yes, that’s happened, too!
..and for those fellow gay parents, there’s the “what route did you take? (to have kids)” question (or at least, that’s how I phrase the question personally 🙂 I think it’s the gay parent equivalent of sharing “how I came out to my parents” stories.
I too am a gay dad with a 4YO son and a legal husband. We live in San Francisco and have been married since 2004. You’re spot on with your descriptions. NOTE: even though it wasn’t ‘show n tell’ day at my son’s pre-school, when my husband and I arrived to pick him up at the end of his school day the teacher simply had to bring us both up and introduce the class as “Steven’s two daddys…” and getting a lot of ooohhhs and aaaahhhs, folowed by “I’m Steven’s best friend – no I’M Steven’s best friend…” and so on.
That is one of the best stories I’ve ever heard! I hope everyone who reads this post reads your comment, because that was so sweet! Can I send my kids to Steven’s school?
Awesome 🙂 Our daughter Mary was also little-miss-popular at nursery school because she has two dads AND two moms (we’re co-parenting with a lesbian couple; we’re all involved in everything). But then, we’re in SF, so >surprise!< 🙂
She recently started kindergarten. We've met several of the other parents who are all cool, but the 4-parents thing hasn't trickled down to the kids yet.
Funny thing though, there are lots of divorced and remarried couples out there, but I don't think there is as much excitement generated by those "2 mom/2 dad" combos (albeit, in those cases it's mom/dad couples, not mom/mom, dad/dad). Maybe it's because of the not-so-happy circumstances surrounding those particular family formations. In our case we all get along great and are all involved in everything, so there's none of the post-break-up tension.
Ha! I don’t even remember how I ended up on your blog but my boys were at the same school in SF as Mary. 2 moms, 2 dads (one of them named, Bill), and a daughter named Mary…can’t be too many of those but maybe in this new world there are. Its a small world. I would say I fall into the “glad you are happy” category.
I have run into a #5…on a group email between friends and friends-and-family-of-friends. This was in the pre-facebook days circa 2000 and when my husband and I were merely discussing having kids. The #5 in question offered lots of talk of scripture and “I don’t discriminates.”
The good news? That person has since divorced the man who was spoon feeding her all that scripture-speak and has apologized and returned to her prior rational self. So, my one run-in was short-lived and reversed.
The down side? As we gay dads are more accepted we will encounter fewer #1s, and who couldn’t use a little fawning attention? 😉
I’m glad your story has a happy ending. I come from a very Catholic family, but everyone has been very supportive of me and my family.
And you’re right about the dwindling #1s. I’m just going to soak up all the attention while it lasts! 🙂
I resisted grouping people into five categories at first, but upon reading your blog entry and thinking about my own experience as a gay dad I think you may be on to something. My husband and I live in the Boston area with our young son and daughter. We run into lots of supportive folks here too, mostly from the “Jaded Allies” category – this is New England after all and people tend to be a bit reserved in general. I think that the “Moral Crusaders” do exist, but most of those people will look like the “Closet Homophobes” because it is a VERY rare person who is going to berate you in front of your children in a public setting. I think they just try to give gay parents a wide berth, and as long as you aren’t doing anything that they find intolerable (holding hands, kissing, being obviously gay, etc.)[N.B. Intolerable in this case does not mean that these things are in any sense inappropriate, but the moral crusaders just don’t want us to be around period, so any signs of gayness are unwelcome to them.] Like you, we haven’t met any of this class of people either. We just hear them spewing hate on T.V. and on the internet. Maybe they don’t exist out n the real world. I did find myself wondering why you had a cartoon of a Spanish speaking evangelical as the illustrative example of the class. I guess in L.A. that may be the prototypical holy-roller. However, I would urge caution lest one could get the impression that you are saying that all or many Spanish-speaking folks are in this class. I know this was not your intention – the ultra-religious come in all shapes, sizes, and ethnic backgrounds. Fortunately, allies also come from sometimes unexpected constituencies. For example, I had a devout Catholic workmate who was wonderfully supportive of me and my family. Glad I found your blog. Looking forward to reading more. Cheers!
I think you’re right about the moral crusaders. If they’re out there, they’re at least polite enough to keep their views to themselves, which is all I would hope for. I don’t want to debate anybody or convert them to my way of thinking. If someone thinks I’m going to Hell, that’s fine, as long as they’re nice to my kids. For the kids’ sake, I’m glad they haven’t been exposed to any real homophobia (yet).
I debated whether to use the “Jesus es Dios” cartoon. It’s definitely not my idea of a moral crusader, and I in no way mean to stereotype Latinos, who’ve been as kind and supportive to my family as anyone. I’ve just seen that slogan on a lot of bumper stickers here in LA and it always seems so silly and needlessly confrontational. I just thought it would be funny and unexpected with that category. Hope that explains it.
Jerry, I think I ran into “No two dads” on the psych ward this week. 😉
Good, I hope he’s getting the help he needs. 🙂
We’re gay dads too, in a small town in southern Wisconsin. I’ve never met type number five, and happily I have only met one or two of those that don’t know how to respond. I was recently at Lowe’s and asked where a particular product was which was poisonous, and i recieved a response from the lady at customer service. She, in her wicked humorous tone in front of her co-workers, told me that killing my wife would leave a trace back to her store. I walked over in front of all of them, smiled and said “I don’t have a wife, but a husband, and I love him so would never consider killing him. However, if i was greeted every day by a woman who handled me like you just did, I might consider it!”. Her co-workers all laughed their asses off at her.
In this little town where we live, our neighbors love us and love that we restored one of the aging gems near town square. Before moving here, I was President of City Council of a beautiful tourist town which the National Registry of Historic Places listed as “One of Ten Sites You Must See”. None of the council members cared, and some of them were in their 80s!!! Gorillas in the mist, and they’re getting used to it…….
Nicely handled! I can’t tell you how much I’ve enjoyed hearing other gay dads’ reactions to this post. If anything explains the lack of #5s, it’s dads like you who are out there acting as our ambassadors. I talk a big game, but it’s not that hard being a gay family in LA, compared to other places. All you other dads deserve a ton of credit, so thanks for making the world a better place for all of us!
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Unfortunately we have met the last one. He showed up on our doorstep and left screaming and mumbling at the same time, while been dragged down the path by his friend. Not trying to be funny but I do believe the man had some sort of a breakdown on the spot.
As in he sought you out to berate you, or happened upon you and lost it?
Just one of those freaks that show up on your door and ask if you have let Jesus into your life. When I introduced him to my partner he started going on about how homosexuality was wrong and God had meant for us to go forth and multiply, so I told him that we did and introduced him to our son. That was when he lost it.
Sorry to hear that. Sounds like he may have had some mental issues. I’m glad that’s as far as it went.
I hope you don’t mind, Anthony, but that made me laugh. Seriously, what a phenomenal story. It’s the kind of comeback we all wish we had in a situation like that. I know you didn’t want to cause a man to break down, but you must’ve felt a little proud of how well you handled that.
At the time I was so angry, but now I see the funny side of it. We live in Northern Ireland so it was bound to happen sooner or later. I agree with one of the other comments, for anybody thinking about becoming a parent, it is not easy but, as you know it is worth it.
new. favorite. blog. ever. My husband and I are just getting into the adoption machine, and quite the machine she is! We’ve barely scratched the surface, and already I can see it will be a… journey : ) We have a few friends (straight and gay) who have gone through the process so we have plenty of help.
One of my apprehensions was about the #5 types, but I’m glad to hear that you and most of your repliers have had little to no experience with it. On the other hand I live in Houston, TX, so a little different than LA… But the inner city isn’t so bad as it’s a good mix, compared to the doe-eyed suburbs. But I look forward to reading more about your experiences! And thanks for the laugh about the “no two dads!” : )
Saw you are starting the adoption process. I live in Dallas and we adopted 15 months ago. I highly recommend Independent Adoption Center (http://www.adoptionhelp.org/). They are national and opened up an office in Houston two years ago. We had a great experience with them. And our favorite counselor, Amber, is the one who opened the Houston office – wonderful lady!
Thank you for this! I was actually going to scroll back up and find you and ask where you are. I am cutting and pasting this into an email right now! Many thanks!
I’m happy to share our adoption experience through IAC with you. My email is ian at soveryvaried dot com
Thanks for the comment. I’m so glad Ian jumped in because I was going to refer you back to his comment anyway. 🙂 He hasn’t met any #5s in Texas, so hopefully, that’s a good sign for you.
Best of luck to you and your husband. One thing I’ve learned about having kids as a gay male couple – no matter how you go about it, it’s not easy, it’s not fast and it’s not cheap. But it can be done, and it’ll be worth it in the end! Keep me posted!
I’m in a different situation than you, but am also in an “untraditional” family, being a straight woman and having a gay male friend as my son’s father. Most of the people we’ve met in Los Angeles who ask about our situation seem to fall into a category you don’t list, although it’s probably somewhere between categories 1 and 2 – nonchalance. Some of these folks do tell us of other people they know in the same situation, but most don’t. Most are not trying to be our BFFs, nor do I think they’re “feigning” indifference – maybe I’m being naive, but I truly believe these people think it’s no big deal in this day and age (and in this city). Their attitude is usually, “it’s great you guys have such a good relationship and such a wonderful family,” and some ask questions about how we make it work. I like these people.
Thanks for commenting, Julie. I’d probably fall into that category myself with regard to your family, because I’ve heard of several other people in LA with families like yours. (Do you use the term co-parenting, because that’s how I’ve heard it described?)
And like you, I enjoy being asked questions about my family. I don’t expect anyone to have had much experience with families like mine before, so if I can address some of their curiosity, I’m happy to.
Being a gay dad is great, but I’m a gay grand-dad, too. Had no role models for how to come out to them. I found just *two* short articles, and they were on the last page of the internet 🙂 But the kids (9 and 5) are fine now…we caught ’em just in time. They love my partner because he got his bassoon out the first time they met him, and he played the theme from Star Wars. He had ’em from the 3rd note. He also had them blow a few notes. Pictures (and some info about my new novel about Christ’s life-partner, along with some comments from fundamentalists foretelling my eternal address) are on my website. Ok to mention it? http://www.carpekairos.com.
Great article, Jerry!
Hi! Great story. Congrats on the book and on hooking a bassoon player. They’re hard to come by! Good luck with your novel!
So right on. I have to echo Gary from Wisco. I’ve definitely come across versions of #’s 1-4. I live in a very conservative, rural county in Ohio, but fortunately I have yet to be confronted with #5. I’m a white, stay-at-home papa with an African-American/Latino son. In other words, we’re pretty conspicuous out here on the range. I’m surprised by how little overt hostility we’ve encountered. I’ve posted about some surprisingly positive encounters here.
Awesome. I’ve been looking for other gay dad blogs, so I can’t wait to read yours. Thanks for linking it. And I’m glad to hear your experience has been positive.
When my partner and I traveled to Phoenix to get our 1 day old son, we were both prepared to face a dose of red state moral outrage. We were pleasantly surprised by the overwhelming support and encouragement we received from the hospital staff as well as the staff at the hotel we were staying at until we could travel home to New York. Interestingly, the 2 moral crusaders we did run into in the 3 1/2 years since our son was born were both in New York and were both members of a minority group. It was devastating to say the least.
Glad to hear about Phoenix. I think it’s much easier to hate or fear something in the abstract than to hate or fear individuals you’ve actually met. I’m sure when the hospital staff met you and your partner and saw that you were just regular people with love to give a child, it erased any prejudice they had.
Our kids were born in a hospital in Orange County, which is notoriously conservative. We were nervous, too, but the staff was delightful.
I’m a gay dad of a 3 year-old in Austin, TX and, like you, so far, most of the reactions are of the #1 type and then the #4 type. Have never been confronted with #5. I think even most extreme homophobes aren’t crazy enough to call someone out in public. One of the most unexpected things about being a gay dad has been the coming out aspect. I thought I was done with all that years ago. Now I realize I’m going to be coming out again and again and again. I find it, by turns, humorous and affirming and wonderful and wearing. Sometimes I just don’t feel like explaining my family to a stranger or explaining for the millionth time that I don’t have a wife. Other times I love the “coming out,” knowing that we’ll be s topic of conversation at so-and-so’s supper table that night. I never wanted to be an activist or a token or whatever. I just wanted to be a dad. But, hey, here I am, and here we are…
So funny – and true. Most of the time, I love talking to people about my family. But sometimes it is exhausting. Sometimes when I’m talking to a stranger, I try to cut off the conversation before they ask about my wife/the kids’ mother because I don’t have the energy to have THAT conversation with them. I’m only at Target to pick up some dishwashing liquid, for crying out loud. 🙂
New favorite blog! Gay dad here via adoption. We live in SF so mostly we get either #1s or #2s. There was the nurse at the hospital our son was born at repeatedly telling us how she strongly preferred breastfeeding for babies over formula. We sat there not knowing what to say because we obviously can’t meet her expectations. Awkward.
We have learned that we just expect to be noticed all the time. And sometimes there are benefits – like the rental car manager giving us a free upgrade to a nice SUV. We think she felt like 2 men were in over their heads with this childcare stuff. We could take offense at that, but instead we just took the sweet ride!
Our baby is still very young, so we feel that these early years are also great training to be able to handle these situations with ease once he’s more aware.
A new BFF at the rental car company – I’m jealous!
It’s funny. I’ve noticed a lot of #1s while traveling. I think it’s because that’s when our family is most obvious for what it is. People are less likely to assume we’re brothers or whatever when we’re both carrying diaper bags and schlepping strollers through security.
Congrats on your new baby and new daddyhood. Don’t believe what anyone says – I loved those early months, exhaustion and all. 🙂
I find very interesting people’s reaction to me when I make a comment about my partner and I becoming parents. It is great to read this type of stories because it guides me in the process of becoming a parent. I want to be very prepared to face all kinds of situations and people and I’m grateful that people for like you who share their stories. It makes a big contribution to our community.
Now, having said that, I found interesting – and offensive – that you use Spanish to exemplify what religious bigots might say. It perpetuates the stereotype of the uber-religious, decidedly ignorant Latino community. By the way, we hate the word hispanic, too. It sets us apart. I’m Mexican, and I face every day the common white people that make sure I know that I’m not a “real American”. For example, the first time I realized my boyfriend and I were different was when every person that met him, without exception said: “Oh, you date white guys, Good for you”. We all have the same archetypes in our journey through life.
I’m sorry to have offended you. It certainly wasn’t my intent. As I explained in another comment, that cartoon isn’t an accurate picture of what I think the moral crusader would look like. It’s just a saying I find funny and which I see a lot of here in LA.
Latino people (I don’t think I’ve used the word “hispanic” since about 1984) have been just as warm, welcoming and supportive to my family as any other, and I’m sorry if I made anyone think otherwise.
Thanks for writing – and good luck becoming a parent. It’s been an amazing experience.
Great blog topic! My hubby and I have been parenting since 2000 here in Iowa City. We’ve had our share of Jaded Allies and a few Closet ‘Phobes. We haven’t had too many BFFs (mainly other gay parents who’ve stumbled across us and were excited for ideas and/or play dates). The only Moral Crusader we’ve run across, sadly, was my own father and that was when I told him about us getting married. He’d largely maintained a stoic indifference about us when we were just dealing with being parents and even then I was shocked back in the early 00s when he wrote to a legislator at my request against an anti-gay adoption study bill in our state.
Most people seem to accept our family as it is or they keep their opinions to themselves. I do think that people don’t want to rock the boat in front of our kids, but truthfully that’s what we deal with even when the kids aren’t with us and the subject of being gay dads comes up. And of course, the kids accept the reality of our family much more comfortably than their parents, I’ve found.
Thanks for sharing your perspective. Iowa City definitely sounds like a more challenging place to be a gay dad than LA, but it’s good to know it’s not all that bleak after all. I’m also glad to hear that kids have been accepting. I don’t mind if someone judges me or confronts me, but I don’t want my kids to face any discrimination or bullying because they have two dads.
Hey Jon,
As a native of the Hawkeye State and a grad of U of Iowa, I am honored to see that you haven’t run into the bad ones. Then again, spending so much of my formative adult life in Iowa City working at the Union and Campus Programs, Iowa City is about as hip as Iowa gets! Enjoy my post above about my partner and I parenting in Wisconsin. We may be coming back to Iowa at some point, to get legally married!!
Seriously, Iowa City’s been ideal for raising a gay family. But even traveling up north to where I grew up in small-town Iowa, most people are friendly and polite. They might not agree, but they almost always keep that opinion to themselves and remain polite.
I’m beaming. Fellow Hawkeye here. Iowa City is really a gem, and I’m glad to hear that it’s great place for raising a family. I always say I hope the wind sends us back there someday.
Two-mom family here. We’re just about an hour east of Iowa City near Davenport. We lived in the South before having our son, and Iowa has been a pleasant surprise! The only #5s I’ve ever run into were in my own family. Something about “family” must make people think they have the right to preach.
This is going to sound awfully basic, but when your son calls for “daddy”, do you both respond? Have you given him different names like Daddy D and Daddy J or something like that?
One of us is Dad and the other is Pops
My boys both call us by name. Keep in mind, we started out as foster parents for these kids so the transition from Jon and Mark to Dad and Dad didn’t flow once we switched from foster care to adoption. But we’re “my dads” when they reference us to others. My youngest still has some contact with his birth dad and he’s still “Dad”. I figure, whatever works for the kids and truthfully they could be calling us much worse!
I remember once hair stylist got upset when my youngest referred to me by name. She thought it was rude that my son called me by name, but it’s really not.
So, did you end up buying the Odyssey? It really is a spectacular vehicle once you get past the odd confused salesman 😉 (I’m a bit of a fan..) Seriously though, a really well-done article!
Hello 🙂 I am none of those categories, I am actually the daughter of a gay dad, and I grew up with my dad and step dad, they have been together 15 years and became a couple when I was at the young age of 3. I personally would never change my upbringing, I love both my dads to bits and though sometimes I did get bullied (which didn’t really bother me since most children get bullied for one thing of another), you just ignore them and move on, now the response I get is that they want them to and can they have them, to which I respond nope their mine. 🙂 I think it’s nice to see other gay parents out there because I have never met another gay couple myself.
You made me tear up on this! So great to hear a reaction like this. Thank you!!!
Thanks for writing Amy! Our daughter is close friends of another girl her age who also has two dads, and they have many sleepovers, as she does with her friends with straight parents. One of the couples we are friends with, who are straight, recently told us after a visit to the ice cream parlor after a school musical that all of the girls would choose our house to be raised in or visit because as they said, “those dads are the coolest, great food and awesome music is always on”. Our daughter has never yet suffered for who her dads are, and hope she never has to.
Great funny post. Glad to hear you’ve not encountered category 5. Also glad to read the interesting comments, including about category 6. Just think, in a while you’ll be meeting category 7 – people who have two Dads or Mums themselves.
I didn’t read all of the comments here but I was struck by something in your post. Why are the classically negative types of people you meet portrayed so stereotypically in the drawings? I don’t live in L.A. but regardless, why is someone who may be clueless portrayed as a toothless hillbilly? And why is the anti-gay crusader depicted speaking in Spanish? I agree that people who fit into these categories exist everywhere and at times are probably hard to deal with but in the end, wouldn’t we be better off approaching them from a more open minded place when that’s what we’re expecting in return?
Great article! My partner and I are raising three teenage sons from our prior marriages, one of whom is gay. As we were shopping for tuxes for HRC here in Chicago this weekend the clerk, a genteel older southern woman downgraded my partner to “friend.” Our contractor did it too while working on the back porch- “I had your…. friend… check out the new fixtures.” There’s always a pause and usually a small expression of discomfort. Not calculated to hurt, because it just pops out, but a reflex display of their hesitancy. Sometimes it feels like they’re covering for us- “We’ll just call him a friend and that way no one will know.” But sometimes it feels like they’re correcting us, or staking their ground.
I would call them the stealth 4.5’s – the ones who let you know they’re not going to say partner or husband in these small interactions, even if you’re the customer. And I agree one doesn’t always have the energy when sorting out a purchase to go to the mat unless there’s a real confrontation. There are plenty of little confrontations, though, and sometimes I see it better after the fact. They can be a little wearing.
And the stakes are just a little higher when it happens in front of your kids. Fortunately our teenagers think we’re exasperating no matter what, so that reduces the pressure to get it right somewhat. We’re always wrong.
Thanks again for a brilliant post. You’re spot-on.
I had to scroll through your comments looking for moral crusaders, since they’ll hide behind the anonymity of a computer but often lack the balls to spew their venom face to face. You guys rock.
As a gay latin-american, I am loving the stereotypical caricature at the end, way to be “progessive” and “open-minded”.
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This cracked me up! My ex husand and father to my two children is gay and when people find out that my children have two daddies they can’t wrap their head around it either. The categories of people I meet are pretty much the same. Only a lot more of #5 pop up because they seem to think I must hate gays because my ex is with a man.
Great post! I’m linking to it on our blog: http://justoneoutofsevenbillion.blogspot.com/
Cheers!
Douglas
Great post. Insightful and funny. Thanks to towleroad for the discovery. We are Dads living in western Michigan and, like most of those who’ve left comments, have yet to encounter the Moral Crusader. We moved from Los Angeles with the birth of our son almost a year ago, deciding to forego big city living for what we hoped would be a simpler kind of life in a small town. We understood that leaving the liberal and progressive attitudes of southern California behind for the more conservative ways of America’s midwest might be risky. We prepared ourselves for difficult conversations and potential confrontations. All for naught. Our 10 month old is quite popular in our little town and I feel blessed each day with the love and acceptance that surrounds us.
My father use to say, “Do they your rent?” Bottom line, it is your life, love your kids and we all pump the same blood. I am a God Mother to my favorite boys, and what I love most is when they call me “Mom”….Life is good
Wow, what an amazing post! My partner and I don’t have children, but I appreciate this window into what it might be like if we functioned as two mothers to anyone other than our dogs.
Now, we’re having Thanksgiving dinner at 3. Hope you and your family can come!
By the way, I loved the dentally challenged stick figure person. How funny!
Kathy
This post was a-mazing! Since I live in San Francisco, I would probably fall somewhere between category #1 or #2. I would most likely just tell you how cute your twins were. This post was absolutely hilarious though. My colleague and I thoroughly enjoyed it. Best wishes to you and your family, and I’m glad that you haven’t run into category #5 and hope you never do.
Great post, I have to say I would probably be a #1, but a chilled out version 😉 I’m just so curious naturally anyway. My mother definitely is #1, but prob tries to act like a #2 working in the mother-baby unit. The subject came up one day, and she flew into a story about a gay couple who came in with a whole chest already of ridiculous gorgeous dresses etc for their daughter, and she said it made her heart swell seeing their excitement, that the energy lit up the whole room. Haha soo definitely a number #1, but she made a point to say even the “closet” homophobes seem to forget at moments like that, honestly compared to the stuff they see I would hope so.. I don’t know how that kind of love wouldn’t effect you. Anyway I am really thrilled to hear you have never encountered a #5, and the way it seems to be going, in a few years when your (TWINS? 😀 okay I’d be a 1!) are in school I believe homophobia, especially among the younger crowd in certain areas, will be almost non-existent… and it seems like at that point in LA it won’t be uncommon. You & your partner sound like great dads, and your attitude about not lying will definitely pay off for society in general. Hiding from the truth in any sense is ridiculous.. oh and your remark about replacing history with “logistics of sodomy” cracked me up, thank you
Oh, what type would I be? My immediate reaction is number 1but maybe a little bit number two. My best friend in secondary school was gay and we have discussed the idea of me being a surrogate for him one day – thankfully we’re both still young enough not to be giving it too much thought!
I love your story, and I’m glad you live in LA – life might not be as easy in Ireland!
I am not sure quite where in these categories I fall. I don’t actually want to fall into any of them because none of them are very flattering.
I hope I’d fall into the category of people who don’t think how other families live their lives is any of their beeswax. I would not think to ask someone where their wife or the mommy is. Families come in shapes and sizes that don’t always look like mine.
Great post! I do think you need one more category, for those of us who accept you as any other couple we’d come across, and hopefully more and more people will eventually fall into this category as well.
Great post! Thank you for sharing!
I will follow your blog for sure.
You forgot #6: married, heterosexual women who wish that their husbands would change a diaper or wash a damn dish every now and then. I think a lot of female #5’s are secretly that category …
What a great article! I’m a mother of two and while reading through your categories I thought about the different responses I’ve recieved while nursing a baby in public, and they are surprising similar to what you encounter. I assuage my “boogeyman” fear by carring a card in my wallet with the law that protects breastfeeding mothers printed on it. I’ve never had to use it, but it’s comforting to know it’s there. Best to you and your family.
I really enjoyed reading this post, truly laughed out loud as I witness these conversations from time to time!
It made me realize that for me as a kid, the “new thing” family-wise was to be friends with someone who had divorced parents. I may not be gay but I’m really excited for my own (unborn) children to grow up in a world where the “new thing” is to be friends with someone who has gay parents.
Such a better notion of the “new thing” to be new families coming together than being torn apart. Oh goodness… I just made myself a #1, didn’t I.
woooww!! Such an awesome post.. i really enjoyed it and learned a lot from it.. 🙂
I am pretty sure Ibwould fall in reaction group #1 although in my over enthusiasm I may come off more as reaction group #2 lol. I tend to be shy and socially ackward in public period.
P.S. I am a -GASP- Mormon too!! That’s one of those areas I will forever struggle with about the church. I choose to believe that men are imperfect and make mistakes, especially when it comes to interpreting the word of God. God I perfect, man is not. I refuse to believe first that a loving Heavenly Father hates anyone and second that he makes “mistakes”. This is what I teach my children too.
I would not only want to be your instant BFF but I would then want to schedule a playdate and post pics on FB for all of my chruch friends to see :oP
I have another category, just as some of your other readers have suggested. It is from the super-liberal pretend person who says, “Oh, some of my best friends are gay!”
Stiff upper lip!
Ronnie
This was very funny. I guess people just don’t know how to react and do the best they can when the situation presents itself. As for me: YOU’RE GAY? hehe, just kidding.
http://valentinedefrancis.blogspot.com/
Thought I’d chime in here with a thought. First off, you should know on a personal level, I do disagree with you. That said, I follow the Golden Rule first and foremost, and I have quite a few gay and lesbian friends.
Despite if you agree with someone or not, there’s a never a reason to be dickhead to someone. That’s something I think many of the Moral Crusaders completely forget. Jesus loved everyone, he made no exceptions, yet they seem to think he did.
You’re nice to me, I’ll be nice to you. It’s rather simple. and you know something very ironic? Those “Moral” Crusaders are often much ruder people than anyone else around them. Want to know something even more ironic? Every gay/lesbian couple I have ever met has been a billion times nicer than any Moral Crusader couple I’ve met.
I want to thank you for being open, honest, and not hiding from idiots who attack you.
While we may not see eye-to-eye, everyone deserves respect. And this, for better or worse, also includes the Moral Crusaders who misguidedly believe attacking others in the name of Jesus Christ is following his example.
Thanks for writing this blog, man!
Interesting, Jerry. Thanks for sharing. I guess people are always different and behave different depending on their level of expereince and exposure in life. This is not only towards gay dad or gay people, but also in different culture and background. Human are certainly an interesting species. If all of us can be ourself and stop treating or acting different each time we encounter somebody different. Then, we will know the truth and live with it.
lol. loved the post. Thanks for sharing. It is an interesting road, once a gay couple has a family. I had planned on one with an ex, but that bubble popped. And my current partner, has a 15yr old daughter. It is often a good time for me, in trying to explain our family to people we met. Most would never really guess we were a couple. I find myself also falling into the traditional mentality, when you encounter others. You never know someone’s story, and old assumptions are no longer truly valid, yet they are persistant. One day, all the attention and novelty will wear off, and gay parents will be just normal, ordinary parents. Until then, lets us enjoy the educational spotlight!
Really interesting post…….Is there not a sixth group who genuinely think its okay and judge you for who you are individually and as a couple and not for being novelty gay dads?
This was brilliantly put! Even if I am one of those 5 type of people…;)
If to be honest with you, when I see someone who I suppose is gay (there are so few where I live – Lithuania and they are not open so you do not see gay couples holding hands in public – so you never know for sure) – I am not sure how should I act. I am really curious abotu people in general, and I love to communicate with people, but the encounter makes me wonder if I shoudl act any other way than I normally would. I mean – are ther any taboo topics? Phrases that are unsuitable? If the gay is a women, will she think of me sexualy? IF yes, that is a little disturbing. And all these questions and worries make me really nervous because I want people to feel comfortable around me. Comfortably enough to be the part of self that they love to be. I guess it might be cause I’ve never spoken to anyone, who was openly gay.
But I loved to read this article, seeing it from your perspective was very interesting.
Thank you for sharing.
Your Vaivalicious reader 😉
http://dressupforme.wordpress.com/
This entry is hilarious! 🙂 Very well put… I wish I could say that I don’t ever fall into one of these categories, but I’m sure I’m more of the enthusiastic, bubbly type! 😀 I live in Bloomington, IN… so it’s rare for someone to be shocked or preachy about gay parents, but I’m sure you run into these stereotypical responses from people all the time! Regardless, congratulations to you both on the twins!! 🙂
I’m slightly wierd in that, like category #1, I’d be more than happy to meet you and be your best friend and accept you for who you are, but different in that my belief system doesn’t think homosexuality is right. And I whole-heartedly believe in my belief system, but if you don’t then there’s no reason for me push it at you or expect you to be exactly like me! I’m more than willing to accept anyone for who they are and be their best friend, while still being true to who I am and what I believe! I wish you and your family all the best!
Lovely post. My wife and I are really hoping our son gives us some gaybies one day as grandchildren (not sure what category that makes us!?)
tmalkin I’m right there with you. I have two sons the oldest of which is gay and has a great partner. My youngest is to be married in June to a lovely woman who we all love to death. I am sure they will give me grandchildren but I really want atleast one from my oldest who is an amazing man and will be a great father one day!
You’re post is really funny.
Hopefully, you’ll add a sixth type. This type isn’t at all uncomfortable with homosexuality (as every person in your 5 categories clearly is). They aren’t blase about it, it just isn’t important, because it isn’t. They don’t have to know any homosexual couples, but maybe they do. It doesn’t matter because people in this category are looking at you as fellow human beings.
I hope you never have to defend yourself, because you shouldn’t. You don’t need to. You’re not doing anything wrong.
The two dads thing isn’t really the stand out thing here for me. It’s twins. I was overwhelmed having one at a time.
Good luck.
Love this. So glad I came across your blog. I would happily try and force myself on to you guys as a new bff if I didn’t live on the other side of the country.
I am a stepmom to two incredible girls who drew the short stick when it comes to birth moms – people forget what a true family is. Having a “mom” is not always a positive !
I have to admit to BFF-ing a couple a few years back, but they totally BFF’ed me back, and helped me immensely with my home, I think it was more a case of “just meant to be friends”.
Really enjoyed your blog and read every comment, because I want to learn. I am not gay and although I have a couple gay acquaintances, none of them have children. I am, however, an African-American who has been married to a white man for 32 years and have experienced my share of all of the catagories of reactions you shared that can come against interracial couples, as with gay couples. To make matters even worse, I used to be entrenched in the conservative Evangelical circles where I was exposed to a lot of the #5’s against the gay community. In fact, the day I left my church was the day the minister said something hateful from the pulpit about gays in general and then went back to telling the congregation how our church was a welcoming place for all who were hurting. I’ve never been back. I still loves me some Jesus, but I can do without those that don’t act like him.
I’ve dedicated my humorous blog to calling out the absurdities of life–hatred and bigortry being a couple of them. I wrote a post recently entitled, “Don’t Quote Me–But I Think Jesus Is Pissed.” I got one of your #5’s via Facebook, but then that prompted me to write “Disney, I Can See Your Cracks” which is about being authentically you and fighting the #5’s in life with all you’ve got.
God bless you and yours. Keep teaching because I’ll be stopping by often so that I can learn and fall in love with families who are just trying to be the best they can be, as I have tried to do! 🙂
I like your writing! I shared it with a friend who is one of two mommies (they have twins). I was attracted to your post because 1. I have a bunch of gay friends, some with kids, and 2. my dad was gay. Dad didn’t come out until I was an adult. I had no idea he was gay. He and my mom divorced and (insert long story here). I guess I want to say that I admire your openness and honesty with your children. It’s the best way to go, in my opinion =)
Can I include myself in the 1st category 🙂 enjoyed reading your blog.
Wonderful post. Did you draw those cartoons??? They’re CLASSIC!
Anyway, my partner and have just entered our 2nd trimester and are expecting in May. Just one, not two…but I’m sure our lives will be changed. We’ll be looking out for the boogey man — though I agree, I think he’s a figment of our imagination. If you wanna check out our blog it’s not near as interesting or well-written as yours. Thanks so much for sharing your story.
Doug
http://www.dougandbill.blogspot.com
P.S. I love Towleroad too!
First, great post!
Second, I’m trying to figure out what I would be. My first strong reaction to this post was oh my God they have twins, that must be adorable and a headache. Maybe that makes me a 1. If I babble about twins and not gay couples am I still a #1?
(Okay, I lied, my first reaction was “I love lists!”)
Excellent post! And, from my experience, your list is spot on! My partner and I have been Gay Dads for almost 20 years. We have two sons (18 and 20) and we’ve met everyone on your list. While our children were not born under the same circumstances as your, they do LIVE under the same circumstances. And the biggest piece of advice that I can give to new Gay Dads is this:
Never let your child think, not even for an instant, that you are in any way ashamed of your relationship or ashamed of your family.
We’ve raised our sons in middle Tennessee (the “buckle” of the Bible Belt) and we’ve run across our share of #5s. It’s important that all Gay Dads know that these people really do exist, not only on television or on the internet, but in airports and shopping centers … and they are FRIGHTENING. You need to be ready to say, calmly and with a controlled voice, “You’re entitled to your opinion but you are frightening my child and I must ask you to leave”.
Haha loved it! Thankful that we have so extremely few of 4 and 5 in Sweden :). Also thankful that things are improving all the time.
#7: People who are horrified by those who exploit others for their own narcissism. Gestational surrogacy? Do you own slaves as well?
I feel sorry for you, Daniel, if you had two loving and caring parents, reguardless of sex, you might not have grown up so bitter with such little understanding.
please move back to the planet you came from. theres no room for you here
Wow! I didn’t think gay on FP would happen! But here it is! Woohoo. I would say that the same list applies when you tell people you’re gay.
There’s been a lot said here so sorry if I missed this. I have both friends and family who are same-sex couples. Two have kids. It’s not new, it’s not shocking and if I met you I probably wouldn’t bother you at all unless it was to tell you your kids were beautiful or just a friendly hello. Entertaining post. 🙂
I read your post and it reminded me of coming out. I’m a gay man (but not a dad). When I came out I remember the reaction of several of my then close friends. One, Sara, I told while grocery shopping. She fit perfectly into the category of New BFF. Her reaction was screaming, “OMG! I’m so happy for you! I wish I were gay! I tried, but it didn’t work.”
As off-putting as that was, it sure beat the reaction of my closest friend who remained silent after I told him I was gay. Later that evening (after a few beers), he came up to me after a party and said, “You’re not gay. I know you and I know you aren’t. It’s a phase and I will help you get over it.” It took him a few years to realize I was really committed to this “phase”.
The most common reaction I had (and the reason I love California) was the Jaded Ally who didn’t really give a damn.
So glad I read this. I’ll happily lump myself into number one!
I just want to thank everyone again for all the wonderful comments you’ve been leaving. It’s been my goal to respond to everyone who writes to me, but I admit I’ve been overwhelmed today. Lots going on here, in addition to all this incredible feedback. It’s been a crazy, amazing and crazy amazing day.
I assure you I’m reading everything everyone’s posting, and I’m grateful for them all. I’ll respond as I can, and I apologize if you don’t hear back from me.
And to the person who asked how many slaves I have, the answer is 3.
Although I haven’t had your experience, as a single white adoptive mother of a Hispanic child in rural KY, I also like watching people’s reactions to us. They run the range from overly friendly & smiley to almost contemptuous. It’s a hobby that adds some amusement to my life anyway!
*hanging head in semi-embarassment* I would SO be #1. I would say something brilliant like “OMG, our son is adopted, which is just like a surrogate! My husband and I love Modern Family, by the way!”
I am such a dork. A well meaning dork, but a dork nonetheless.
Congratulations on your beautiful family.
Well I am Christian myself ( and studying Theology), and all I can say is: That book is VERY old, and some people (of category 5 you luckily haven’t met) should REALLY learn to place books in the HISTORICAL CONTEXT they were written in … 😉
I think it’s great that it is possible now for homosexual couples to have children and be parents, if they want to.
Many, many greetings from Germany … 😀
This is the best comment I’ve seen from a religious person in my whole life.
Thank you so much =)
no shit julie you are right. Maybe there is hope out there… God is for everyone:)
So funny and true!
Unfortunately I have come across type 5 in one of America’s most liberal cities, Santa Cruz, California. I’m not a dad (yet) but these people most certainly do exist! What usually sets them off is a gay PDA.
Awesome dude!!! 🙂 I am going to start visiting you more often!
It was really nice to read your blogentry! I am from Germany and gay too and even if I’m only 19 I think about whether I want to have kids later or not. I know that it is early to think about that topic, but it comes to my mind very often in the last time. My biggest fear is that my kid would get problems in school or anywhere else because it would have two Dads. I’m not sure if I would like to have kids in a society where homosexuality still is a big issue and far from everyday life for many people. Sure, much can change until I get to the spot where I would seriously to decide whether I want to have kids or not, but it keeps me thinking. Anyways, it was really nice to read your story and to read all the positive reactions you and the other people who commented received. I look really forward to read more of your stories from the other side of the world 🙂
As a believer of the Lord Jesus Christ, I am called to defend the faith. The word of God is holy and true.
The Lord loved all sinners and that is why He died on Calvary. He loves them still to this day. He died for my sins, and for yours as well. We can never measure up to a Holy God’s standard, and therefore, a Saviour is our only hope for mercy and salvation. And what a blessing that is indeed! Christ is a loving Saviour whose love cannot be put in a box for His love surpasses human understanding.
He does not wish for any to perish, but He leaves it up to us everyday we live, to either know with security of an eternal home with Him having accepted His gift of salvation, or to reject His gift. And a gift can only be given if it is received, right? His gift is available to you today.
I know it grieves the Lord that persecution of His children remains constant, but He still loves all sinners, although He hates their sin, as His word clearly states.
As a Christian, I personally am under tremendous attack for my faith at every turn, even in this country and in this age. I do thank all those who serve our country for our liberties and freedoms. (In fact we honored those veterans today and it was a wonderful reminder of how wonderful our country is above all others. But I digress…) It amazes me time and time again that in the cry for tolerance, it seems that Christianity is always under persecution, and is fair game to be mudslinged in the process. Only a few may stand up whose conviction is to defend their Lord. We are called moral crusaders, red staters, and a number of other obscenities and profanities, and are depicted in the media as hateful in general, that is. But we know, because Christ said it, that in this world we would be hated because we believe in Him. Thus, it is no surprise to be under attack in this day and age where faith in Christ is pigeonholed with a caricature of what Christianity seems to be like in the eyes of others.
I don’t speak for those you’ve met who claim Christ but act in hatred. I know Christ is a loving Redeemer and as Christians, we are called to love others by giving them the good news of Christ (the gospel) and by admonishing them as well.
We are all sinners and none of us is holy, but I know the One who is and I hope you come to know Him too someday!
Move to Springfield, MO. There all mostly Christians there and you won’t find the persecution problem. The South in general is very Christian.
I did find some persecution in So. Cal when I lived there but we were very open outspoken Christians. The loving kind but still outspoken so we got shunned sometimes. I see now we were pretty much asking for it though. If you’re gonna be outspoken, like the writer here warns, you have to be prepared.
I was a 100% Christian and served the Lord Jesus Christ for 38 years. I’ve been an Agnostic Wiccan now for three years and I love the peace and kindness along with being able to accept people for who they are with out worrying about them burning in the hell that the loving Jesus Christ will throw them into if they don’t repent.
I appreciate that you are trying to show that not all Christians are haters and really mean and spiteful and you are right about that.
While I do respect your belief’s as an individua As a Quaker, I believe that there is that of God in every man. I want you to think about something. Being gay does not trouble or test my faith, or that of my husband or our son who at 15 can make up his own mind. But what does test my faith, is people like you, with your ungodly attitude that you are always right, especially when one of you comes to our door and calls our son “a test-tube abomination”. In my opinion hard-line Christians such as yourself are the cause of so many people turning away form God. I am sure satanists all over the world are saying “keep up the good work”. I know you believe that you are right but I just want you to think about the consequences.
and here my point is made that all gay people should just turn away from moral crusaders. and this is a KIND one!! but look at the hatred it bred. very ugly, very damaging to the soul. Evil. dont let them consume you like that.
Beloved, that was mostly beautiful, but remember, our citizenship is in heaven, and that citizenship extends (and might be outnumbered by!) people who are not of the United States.
Remember, the Lord (and only the Lord) knows those who are His.
Jerry, you radiate love and hope. And hope does not disappoint.
Love is of God, and God is Love.
He designed human relationships and romantic love.
There is such a wide variety of Loves, because God is not a small God! He is Huge!
And He is my everything.
My heart aches and breaks for you. It is natural for you to want to be a father. But it is not natural for you to be a father with another father.
The creation of a human being requires a sperm from a man and an egg from a woman. There is no other way for human life to be formed.
I do not say that to be disrespectful or offensive or to cut you down as a person. You seem to be a quite beautiful person, who clearly desires acceptance in your journey through parenthood.
You are a parent, both biologically and emotionally. It is not my place to take that right and privilege from you. But that precious gift you have is a gift from God, and a gift from the woman who chose to carry your child for you.
While your partner may be just as much that child’s “parent” in the emotional sense, that child would not exist if it were not for the woman.
Human life requires both a sperm from a man and an egg from a woman. That is what is naturally creates a human.
I do not doubt that you love your partner and that your partner loves you. But God has a greater plan for love.
First, He desperately wants you to love Him and submit to Him. In submitting to Him, you must stop having sexual relations with your partner for that is a sin in His sight. Before anyone jumps on me for “judging,” I also believe that heterosexual sex outside of marriage is a sin. I am a 27-year old virgin, still waiting for a godly husband. It may not be in God’s plan for me to get married, but that is okay, because Isaiah 54:5 tells me that the Lord is my husband. He provides for my every need and I am complete in Him. I hope I’m being clear when I say that it is NOT wrong for you to be sexually attracted to men, anymore than it is wrong for me (a woman) to be sexually attracted to men. But lusting and acting out on our sexual desires outside of a man/woman MARRIAGE is wrong. There are many logical and emotional reasons why, and believe me, I know that it is not easy to abstain from sex with someone you are deeply in love with. But it CAN
and MUST be done.
The apostle Paul, as far as we know from scripture, was a single virgin for his whole life as far as we know. He had a thorn in the flesh, and readers are not told what it is, but perhaps it was homosexual attraction.
Your child CAN be raised in a loving home environment, but after seeing so many people live without mothers, I know that a child NEEDS a mother to function at his or her best.
You can email me if you would like to discuss this further. leahallisonhall@gmail.com I don’t know what category you would put me into, but I have tried to speak out of LOVE and to represent and glorify my LORD and all that He desires for His children. And Jerry, you are His precious child. I pray that you will grow to know Him more.
i think i hate you, i really do. go away!!
Hi Leah,
Hate to bust your bubble, but despite what you and many other people think a child does NOT NEED a mother. I have proof, my son is now a very well adjusted, polite, bright teenager who does very well at school and always gets good reports. He gets all the love and support he needs from his Dad’s. Having same-sex parents has never affected his life, he is no different from his friends with straight parents, except a little more wise, mature and independent, there are no apron strings in our home.
Why is it always people who don’t have children, think that mothers are vital, most people can barely tolerate their own.
respectfully written – please don’t hate me. I love you! (you know, as we know each other so well.) 😉
Anthony, I am thankful to God that there are well-balanced children who have “made it” without mothers in their lives. God (LOVE) is truly the only we will ever “need” as human beings.
But, you simply cannot argue with me in that it is IMPOSSIBLE for human life to come about without a sperm from a man and an egg from a WOMAN.
You are right in that there are many lame excuses for mothers out there, whom children may very well be better off without.
But don’t tell me that a good mother isn’t an asset to have in your life! Millions of people of all types will back me up on that. 🙂 You can email me to discuss more as well, if you would like. 🙂
I am reposting this for two reasons. 1 I forgot to add my name the first time and 2 because it applies to you. While I do respect your belief’s as an individual. As a Quaker, I believe that there is that of God in every man and woman. I want you to think about something. Being gay does not trouble or test my faith, or that of my husband or our son who at 15 can make up his own mind. But what does test my faith, is people like you, with your ungodly attitude that you are always right, especially when one of you comes to our door and calls our son “a test-tube abomination”. In my opinion hard-line Christians such as yourself are the cause of so many people turning away form God. I am sure satanists all over the world are saying “keep up the good work”. I know you believe that you are right but I just want you to think about the consequences.
Also, I want you to know that we are eternally greatful to the woman who carried our son for us. That she would do that for us was the greatest display of God’s love I have ever seen.
Now THIS post is an excellent example of the Moral Crusader…
and thanks, Jon. 🙂 To God be the Glory! (He really is wonderful.)
Saying that sometimes people are disrespectful, and some of those people are Christians, is not the same as persecuting Christians. Nowhere in the post did he say or imply that all Christians are “Moral Crusaders”, nor that Christians could not fit into any of the other categories.
Once upon a time, being an out gay man was a criminal offense. Men were sent to prison for the crime of loving another person as they saw fit. They were in fact, persecuted for it. Maybe some people do hate you for being Christian, but if you want us to get the facts before we decide you hate us, perhaps you should do the same.
I didn’t mean to laugh out loud and I really shouldn’t have, but the part about the guy at the Thai restaurant with the repeated, “NO TWO DADS!” just cracked me up to no end. I honestly don’t know what it is with my Asian brethren and their seemingly compulsive need to repeat stuff (at increasing decibels levels as if YOU’VE gone deaf) they don’t understand or that doesn’t coincide with THEIR thinking/beliefs — did you get the “share & point” action, too? SMH!
This was a great post! Congratulations on being Freshly Pressed, too! I’ve tried to identify myself amongst these five people and I think I’m a 1.5…not quite super enthusiastic BFF, but definitely an ally- just not a jaded one. Blessings to you and your family! ♥ ^_^
“We could lie, but what kind of message would that send to our kids? That there’s something wrong with our family and we have to keep it secret? A much better message for them to get is that strangers can be clueless sometimes, and that it’s our job to educate them.”
– That is such a healthy way to look at it! It is so important for kids to understand that you’re supposed to take pride in who you are. So many parents seem to tell their kids to do just that, but then they behave in a way that makes it clear that really, you should be proud of who you are so long as you’re “normal.” Telling your kids that’s it’s okay that they have two dads but then lying about it when confronted in public would send a confusing and detrimental message.
I think I’m somewhere between New BFF and Jaded Ally. I don’t generally exhibit a response upon first finding out someone is gay unless they are directly telling me, but I am a bit curious about the family/marriage dynamic and will ask if I feel like the other person won’t mind.
Also, I really enjoyed the cartoons.
I stumbled here via freshly pressed, as so many before.
You made me think about how I react when someone tells they’re gay. I’m guessing it falls in between 1 and 2 for strangers, but if it’s a friend, I give them a hug.
#4 made me giggle….
I’m glad you haven’t met any #5’s.
One of my best friends recently came out to everyone and she’s having a hard time with it. She didn’t mean to – facebook outed her.
Her dad? He would be a #5.
I have many other friends who are gay, but none of them have jumped into parenthood.
Congrats on being “pressed”.
Sometimes I am just completely embarrassed by the human race. I truly wonder how evolved we have become.
I saw an amazing poster this week. If you think gay marriage cheapens the institution, I have two words for you “Kim Kardashian”.
Congratulations to both of you. Two loving parents is all that matters to build a family.
I’m so glad you were freshly pressed and I stumbled over here! Thank you for sharing your story – I’m so encouraged. My best friend really wants to be a (gay) dad in the future, and it’s really nice to hear that your encounters are far more positive than otherwise. Kudos and congrats to you and your partner – what wonderful role models for your children and the rest of us!
Beautiful piece!
A person’s sexual orientation has nothing to do with his ability to be a good parent. You show that clearly with this blog. I think it’s great that you live in a country where such things are possible. Here in Norway, where I live, it is not allowed.
Great read, and funny!
Ha, awesome post! The head scratcher drawing killed me lol
Great post. Love the bit where you said I want my kids to know I have got their back. I always think that kids can never have enough love in their lives, or people who are proud of them. Doesn’t matter what kind of family it is that supplies this!
You do realize that the woman at the park who says ‘I wish my husband took my kids to the park sometimes’ is desperately hoping you will tell her your sad story of a late wife and your terrible loneliness, as she has no husband at all! 🙂
Congrats on being fresh pressed too.
Yeah, I hate it when other people try to stereotype you or stick a label on…… Oh, wait.
Great blog 🙂 – Kids are hard work no matter who you are or what your family unit looks like! I would probably be a little bit of #1 mixed with #2 and I’m in Australia. To me, my husband and my little boy, people are people no matter who they love or what they do. If you or your partner sucked as people, we wouldn’t invite you over! If you are both good people, come on over to OZ. Sorry, we don’t do Thanksgiving though! Simple!
KL
Wow, I’m so glad this post showed up when I signed in today! Very funny. I have to say I’m relieved that you take so kindly to #1s, because I’m sure I’d be one (but I’d be embarrassed about my own enthusiasm). I’m sorry to say that there was a time when I might have been a #3, back when I knew a lot of people who were probably #5s. Much happier to be a #1!
I’m still laughing at “I wish my wife and I were gay, too!”
LOL! You need to make a 6th category in which a person’s response is not religious, nor is it judgmental. More along the lines of ‘Why the heck would you do that? I thought one of the perks of being gay was that no one is pressuring you to procreate! And here you go making the choice to have 2 at once! Good luck to ya!’
awesome post! i’m pleasantly surprised to learn that there aren’t as many moral crusaders out there as i had feared.
thanks for sharing the splendid!
I have very high regards for Gay dad and Gay moms persay. You guys show that parenthood can be shared even with the same sex. Despite cultural differences around the world you guys have managed to completely stabilize your relationship especially with your kids and I am very proud of that.
KUDOS FOR BEING FRESHLY PRESSED.
Hilarious post! I love the drawings. Sounds like you’ve got a great family!
Hahaha! I’m a 20 year old gay kid. I loved this post! It was nicely written. I’ve already decided to have kids when the time comes, nice to know what to expect! 😀
P.S. Totally subscribing to this blog!
LOL – I just stumbled upon this post…My lesbian grandmother practically raised me and this is the funniest post ever – Maybe because “boys” think its cool (pfsh), girls are indifferent, and my mother in law thinks its a sin against God…You cant win…But I love her and respect her more than anyone in the world! I know your kids will think the same about you when they are older, only people happy with themselves can love others! So keep up the honesty (its of course the best policy)…
very nice artikel………keep writing bro
http://juditogel.wordpress.com
This isn’t my balliwick but what a clever post. Very interesting!
As a hopefully-sometime-in-the-future gay dad, this made my heart smile. Thank you! If we weren’t on opposite coasts, I’d start to look for you in the grocery store or at the park. Thanks so much, this post was so encouraging to me!
This is a good post! I like it and I enjoy to read this blog. I want to make a gay dad….
Fell on this on Freshly Pressed. Great blog, great sense of humor. I probably would blink and say Oh! then tried to discern whether your gay, or if there is a wife/ex-wife somewhere before I stuck my knee in my mouth, and then moved on. In my opinion, it really doesn’t matter– good parenting isn’t dependent on gender or orientation.
Having moved from Iowa to another state that is as conservative as possible (why does anyone live in Nebraska? This place is uninhabitable), I was surprised to read that you get any reactions at all! I feel like family is defined 9 million ways and the feigned indifference might actually be real indifference. “You’re okay, I’m okay,” or something.
Regardless, thanks for posting, Jerry. This was a fun read, and an eye-opener! Definitely going to be aware that sometimes one can be *too* enthusiastic of an ally.
I loved this post – and congrats on being Freshly Pressed! Have to admit, I’m probably #1… I think it’s so great what you are doing and I’d want to get to know you, have drinks, baby sit your kids… LOL! After reading this post. I realize I probably should tone it down. Just a snidge.
Congrats on your beautiful family and keep on blogging!
I’ve had some new BFFs pop up over time when I came out to them… I don’t get it. Are we (queer folks) still that much of a novelty? Is it exotic to be homo-ish? It doesn’t make sense.
Love it!
Very interesting to hear about your perspective. Gay culture is huge in Melbourne so it doesn’t really shock us anymore.
More power to you. 🙂 I hope your family is continually showered with love and blessings.
Welcome to parenthood. Hold on! The joy comes from sticking together (as parents and a couple).
dearest jerry – this was a delicious post – and most thought-provoking and heart-warming and beautifully frank and open – we loved it.
a new small baby in our lives (who happens to share our RL first name) has two dads and we think she’s a Very Lucky Girl.
much love to you and your family from team gloria. xx
Let me start out by saying that I’m pansexual,and am used to these kinds of people as well. It gets difficult when you’re out with your partner and society feels the need to interject on your personal life. You make an excellent point about educating people. It is our duty as a members of the gay community,to put forth accurate information for not only those who are curious,but for the greater good of the rainbow and it’s future in this world.
Love&Lace,
Lily Hex
wow. im learning a lot from this blog lol. And im gay!!
I’m so glad to hear you don’t really see any of those “boogeymen”! My city has a high homosexual population and other than I’m sure a few awful people who are just nasty to everyone, people are generally really accepting 🙂
If you (or your readers) wanted to check on my new blog which is basically about my thoughts on life, the universe and everything, I’d love to get some readers! doodlejulie.wordpress.com
I wish I could meet you guys. I mean, it seems so cool and if you ever do run into one of the moral crusaders, they’re just jealous. I’m pretty sure you have an amazing family…better than some of those who have a mother and a father. As for your kids, if anyone ever bothers them about their fathers being gay, please please please tell them to fight it and not take it in. It really hurts me seeing what kind of things kids can say about this situation. Tell your family I said hi!
Candid and hysterical. Thanks for sharing. The five people a single mom meets is by far not as interesting. Living in the Midwest, I can tell you the boogeyman does exist here and I’m glad, at least for your family, you haven’t had to experience it.
I’m probably your new bff in a town full of moral crusaders (Northwest Louisiana).
Parenting is such an ungrateful job that anybody who does it is a true hero 🙂
My husband is a step father to our son, and he is doing a great job. In fact, they probably would not mind adding one more dad and/or getting rid of me!
If you ever run into #5, just gently remind them that judging is a sin…
I am a Christian lesbian (yes we exist, ha) and my wife and I would love to have a baby, but don’t have the means at the moment. Although we don’t have children YET, we have come across the #5 Moral Crusaders many times and so I have spent years doing Biblical research that explains the mistranslations and misconceptions of the “clobber passages” that only appear to condemn homosexuality. So if you ever come across any #5, send them my way. 😉 Many blessings to you and your family!
Moral crusaders are out there, my friend. My mother is one. Fortunately for my view of reality, my father is a gay dad. I’m glad that you haven’t come across many in LA, though.
I had a giggle. Brave man. I’m jealous though I must admit. My other half wants kids, or diamonds LOL
Wonderful post! It sounds like you, your partner, and your children are very lucky.
Glad to read this post and see it got Freshly Pressed.
I read a lot of the replies but peedered out after a while. I enjoyed what you wrote and I enjoyed the responses I read as well except the one I actually replied to myself up there somewhere. lol
I found your article through a friends FaceBook share thing. She mentioned how these are the same reactions when you tell someone you’re a witch. And how true it is. Due to having come from a Pentecostal, evangelical, full gospel, Bible thumpin, holy rollin …. Christian family, and having been that way for the first 38 years of my life I have plenty of #5’s to deal with now and then. Not just for being a non-Christian Agnostic Wiccan Unitatian Universalist but also a LGBT supporter. It has gotten better cause I have become more learned and able to respond in a way that they know I’m not stupid and they would rather attack an ignorant person.
Personally I tend to be a #1. But then again I’m kinda like a hybrid puppy when I first meet people in general anyway. lol I do chill after a while, really!
I’m all about being the open book person type thing cause I am convinced somewhere someone is going through the same thing and needs to know they are not alone and they need any words of wisdom they can get to survive another day.
Thank you for sharing with us and educating us as well. I really appreciate it.
GREat article! I see those 5 categories of people in so many aspects of life. You are lucky, #5’s do exist. Carry garlic (just kidding).
Diving back in to read some more of your posts.
Sarah
I’m a middle-age, married, straight woman. In reading the comments here, I am so impressed that there are so many couples who are braving the heartland as gay parents. I imagine it as being quite a challenge. But living life “normally” is what is going to eventually make the #5 category rare and irrelevant. ( I suppose that makes me a #1?)
If you actually read this reply you will have ‘met’ a #5… except I am not going to spew scripture at you, tell you about satan, that you’re going to hell, or that you can’t serve in the military. It seems you are an intelligent human being, and if you wanted to know more about it you could study theology yourself to see what is really being said.
Actually I’d like to help correct your assumptions about #5’s… the real one’s not the ones who like to make people feel guilty and enjoy being cruel, but the ones who are really into the love of God. That’s really what it’s all about, love, care, kindness, respect, and dignity. I don’t like being pigeon holed just as much as I am sure you and your partner detest it.
Speaking of dignity, I would also like to point out that your children do in fact have a mother. Two of them, from what I gather reading your blog. I would like to politely point out that you and your partner needed a woman (or two of them) in order to create another human being. These children are beautiful and you should be proud of them, it seems you are deeply in love with them. However it’s sad and disheartening that you took the ‘m-word’ out of the equation, and that you refer to it with such disdain. It’s absurd that you refuse to admit that you needed a woman to fulfill this desire in your life. But mostly it makes me sad that the mothers of your children are given so little regard, that you call them aunts. I wish you and your family to find all of God’s love and peace.
Thanks for a really interesting read. I have in the past wondered what it would be like for same couples parenting children and what prejudices you might come up against. Also how easy or not it would be to answer some of the childrens questions which invariably would be driven by what society dictates. Enjoy every moment of your twins.
This is great! I really appreciate your post and its depth. I’m glad you have never ran into the Moral Crusader and I hope you never do but be certain they exist. Your location just makes you fortunate. As a bisexual female who was once very active in the LGBT community in Texas, I have had plenty of experience with the sort. Some being family members. It’s definitely ‘no fun’. Luckily I have had tons of great LGBT experiences in other states that greatly overshadow the forementioned experiences. As far as my category. I don’t think I’m listed. I love you just as much as I love my hetero brethren and send the same amount of positivity and joy your way but I don’t need any new BFFs; accept you and celebrate you as you are but don’t make such a big deal about it; I understand clearly how the family works (pretty much like any other family) and don’t believe in the hems and haws of the Word so … how about ‘fellow life embracer’? 🙂 Thanks for the read.
‘NO TWO DADS!’…’NO TWO DADS!’ I can’t stop laughing. 😀
I sincerely hope that you don’t come to India ever because here you’ll find a lot of these insensitive type 5 people. It’s because they are not used to it.
I am so thankful you never have run into a moral crusader. I’m honestly thanking your lucky stars right now, they’re really just terribly unpleasant people. By the way, your kids will have been very lucky to have such strong and proud men to call their fathers.
This is beyond fantastic. I so want to be your new best friend.
But only because you are a fantastic writer.
Let’s leave the kids at home and talk blogs. 😉
I mean, not BECAUSE you are gay.
BECAUSE you are an awesome writer.
Duh.
And I like to hang with awesomeness.
Following you everywhere now. #stalkerish
Thanks for the great read! I have a friend from school who is a lesbian mum, and I think I fell into category 1 when I found out…
Great (and funny!)post. I don’t know any gay dad, but your writing helps to understand your situation very well.
And yes, I think you’re lucky living in Los Angeles : here (I come from a little town in Switzerland) not only homosexual couples aren’t allowed to have kids, but you can still and often run in people that goes to the police because a gay couple is holding hands in the street.
(I’m not gay, just tired!!)
Congratulations!
I never know any gay dad before. (I’m asian)
But after read your blog, it was great how to you deal with it.
🙂
I’ve read your post, and some comments about it and really feel envious since the country i live in is not that ‘open’ about anything gay, seriously, it’s so rare to find a ‘come-out-of-closet’ gay here or people who talk about gay in a supportive way. Seriously, i really envy you and all the gays out there who’s welcomed by the society. But thanks for the post, it brings me little hope about long-lasting gay relationship since you mentioned gay marriage and having childern. I hope i’ll meet someone too and get married, and have lovely childern and could taste those fantastic #1 – #4 experience, but please no more #5, i’ve had enough here. Well, i’m looking forward to reading your new posts. Subscribed & Liked & Loved. *btw sorry if my English is bad, i’m from Asia.*
Great perspective on how to expect people to act. Kinda like saying “they are this, and will act like that.” I am sure gay people hate it when that happens 🙂 Good luck on being Daddy 🙂
Like others, I have to reassure you that I am not, in fact, a gay dad. I am not a dad. Or a mom. And I’m only half gay.
Also, I live in Michigan, but my own response to many things is often “Freaking Las Angeles! I should have known!”
Those being said, I really enjoyed your post, and congratulations on being laundered.
I don’t have a situation that immediately screams “NOT MAINSTREAM!” So I don’t have to worry about explaining myself too often. But I am still dealing with how to approach it when it does come up. (Being a bisexual polyamorous pagan, you might think I was TRYING to piss off the R. Right.)
WAHAHAHAHAHA “Then they’ll quietly slip away to pray or throw up or something.”
That’s ferrociously funny!
Hey there!
Nice blog-post, really entertaining…
And kind of awkward realising that I could actually place myself, if not directly in than at least right inbetween two of the response-characters. 😀
Anyway, I came here to make a point… What was it… (god damn teflon memory!)
…
Oh, yeah! I know you said you’re prepared for the F5-of response people, the Moral Cruisader. But I’m conviced that that kind of person is basically “unswayable”. You might have a killer speech in your pocket, and you might deliver it flawlessly, with the Thousad Yard Stare radiating from your entire being…
But there’s usually no talking to those people.
Anyway, thanks again for a nice read.
/Micke, Umea, Sweden
“those people” ?
Yeah… The Moral Cruisader-people.
-Why?
Micke: Sometimes you need to have some sort of response — even if it is a direct “mind your own business” response — not for the Moral Crusader types, but for your kids. They hear this sh*t too and need to know that there’s nothing wrong with our families.
Sure thing.
What I meant by my “there’s usually no talking to those (the Moral Cruisader) people”, is simply that it usually doesn’t matter what you say, they’ve already judged you.
But sure, some kind of response to let the kids know that what they just heard is not acceptable, I get that.
It’s so cool reading about you two! It’s like reading about my future and how me and my boyfriend is chilling out in a (in our case, Swedish) park with our kids… Better start thinking of some “great little speeches” of my own! 🙂 Thanks for sharing!
Love the post! In my extended family we have two Dad’s with a two year old son, and it is interesting to see others reactions from your point of view. Very well written, love the site!
Great post, but a humorous cartoon in between does make it all the more awesome.
First things first, I don’t care if you are gay or straight, the first thing that should matter to anyone is that you raise your kids right with love and shower them with happiness. (Happiness does not mean gifts.) If you do that the child is in a wonderful home regardless of what the world views a relationship.
To piggyback one of your points, as a man of the “x-gen” who seemed to grow up in a generation that “gay is ok” (for the most part, my generation still has haters). It is funny to see the BFFs from the outside looking in. And this does not just go for gay couples only, I have seen it happen with a black guy/girl at an all white party or even a conservative at a liberal gathering, Jews in a catholic/non-religious setting etc… Watching some people trip over themselves to be friendly and show acceptance is somewhat hilarious at times. Please don;t misconstrue it as a criticism, just funny. Because in the end it is acceptance, tolerance, friendship, love whatever you call it and the world needs more of it. But at times in peoples own little world it is like a mini-celebrity crossing their path and they do want to expand their lives.
please keep writing, and I will keep reading!
Fantastic post, I hope this reaches the masses and more people become aware of the changing families. The point should be if the children are happy, not how many Dads there are. Congrats on Freshly Pressed, well deserved.
Interesting perspective. Thanks for sharing.
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you shouldn’t worry. you’re not the only gay dad..and I agree with your statements!!!
great post then!
http://letscriticize.wordpress.com
http://alfjeremy.wordpress.com
This is so well written! And funny, in its own way. I would have loved to meet you, your partner, and your kids! Talk to you and hear your story. Maybe one day I will be walking with my girlfriend and our kids, and I can remember this and be prepared for the different reactions that might come when our kids have to mommys! Wonder how that will be like over here, but it’s going to maaany years from now anyway 😉
“I wish my wife and I were gay to” HAHAHA,made my day.
-I will continue to read your blog!
I try to get people to think more deeply about religious issues and I noticed that there was a lot of talk about “Moral Crusader” “boogeymen” in this post and in the comments which I immediately took for an indication that you may be prone to believe a strawman of how Christians view homosexuality. So, I thought that I may be able to help give a more balanced vew of the argument by providing you all with a full scholarly debate on the issue. May God bless you all.
Thank you!!!
This is just plain good! Thank you for posting it and congratulations on Freshly Pressed. Jaded Ally over here. Thanks for holding up the mirror to these types with clarity, good-natured humor and without judgement.
Most importantly? The love and care you are giving your children…..who gives a flying diaper what others say or think….
Great Post!
You’ve got lot of comments on here, but I just wanted to add my own smile. This made me happy to read (and gave me just a nice little hit of hope for my own alternative lifestyle aspirations). 😀
Thanks for showing me the perspective that World New Tonight didn’t. 😉 LOL! Great blog. Much love to you and your family!
Great Blog! As an immigrant, I get some very similar reactions! When I tell people that I was born and raised in Bangladesh, I get many of these reactions. I am thinking of taking a cue from your blog and writing an essay on the 5 people you meet as an immigrant!! Keep’ em coming!
Congratulations on being Freshly Pressed. Love the post, especially the pictures. The one with the guy’s eyes going in two different directions was funny!
The boogymen of which you speak, they exist. But they may not be brave (or crazy) enough to blast you right there in the park. They congregate in safe areas with other boogymen and complain about your existence. And there’s nothing you can say, no amount of love and respect that you can show to your kids that will convince them that you’re a loving Dad. I hope you never have to meet one.
Love and peace to you and yours.
Great post! I could copy and paste and put the heading “Five responses when people find out I’m a vegan” 🙂
Thank you very much for posting #5. I really hate to be categorized just as much as you do. Just because I wear a cross around my neck doesn’t mean I hate gay people. Sometimes our stereotypes are all in our heads and we need to remember that people are individuals.
All the best to you and your family!
I found your post funny and a bit realistic. I think when I first met my GBFF (his term) I may have fallen into the 1st category but I think he also did. You see, my husband and I are a bi-racial couple and we get the same drama that you do – yes, in this day and age! My friend (mentioned above) said that the reason he actually made it his business to speak to us was because he imagined we (in developing and having our relationship) probably faced a lot of the same issues with others’ acceptance. To which I smugly (and a bit naively) retorted, ‘I could give a flying ‘F’ about others’ acceptance of my relationship’. Anyway (digressing a bit), I really liked your post and can relate to the reactions.
hi jerry. thanks for this post. i really enjoyed it. had a lot of good laughs… and made me think a lot of good friends who are legally married husbands who are thinking of having kids… it also made me think of lot of women who decided to have kids on their own without a husband and not out of a wedlock.. they also get very wide range of reactions, i imagine.
question — in what manner do gay parents want to be addressed? are you annoyed by curious but hedged questions… or do you rather receive a flat out correctly assumed question – are they (collective) your kids?
request — on another note, one of the difficulties they are struggling with is how to choose the ultimate last name… while none of them feel particularly masculine/feminine, they feel as though the ultimate last name is quite important… it’d be awesome if you could share your thought/feedback on that. i’d be curious to see the discussion your blog would generate.
thanks!!
Cute story! Congrats on FP. I’ll be your BFF!
You are freshly pressed! Congrats! I haven’t read the post yet, but look forward to reading it when I have more time. : )
I never really gave “two dads” a thought until my 15 yo daughter was put into a therapeutic foster home with two gay dads. At first I was like, “WHAT?!” But then I calmed down and realized that these were two human beings who could do a great job as parents. Hell, I hadn’t done such a bang up job as the mother up until that point. I wound up meeting these guys and I didn’t really care who was the mom and who was the dad to be honest. They were so full of love.
It’d be so nice if our society looked at the really big picture.
Not to nitpick, but both of the men were the dads in that household.
This brought a smile to my face!
Unfortunately I know quite a few people that I believe would fall into #4 or #5. With that said they are “older” individuals & most of the “younger” individuals would fit one of the first two. Slowly but surely it seems to quite being an issue & just BE.
Jerry- as two dad’s and the father of 3 children under 5, my partner Michael and I certainly can relate. Our daughter Eve is 4 and we also have twins, a boy and a girl, 2.5 years. Similar to you, we used my sister’s eggs and Michael’s sperm. We live in Suburban Detroit ( not exaclty L.A.!). I can tell you that our experience has been almost identical to yours. We have never been openly discriminated or harassed. In fact we have been nothing but embraced! We were heavily recruited by the Jewish Day school and get frequent invites for play dates. It seems that once we had children we were so much more accepted by the heterosexual community. I believe that movement toward gay civil rights will be greatly accelerated as we continue to have families. After all, many of us want the same traditional life style as everyone else.
Of interest, we don’t hear so much from many of gay friends. Did that happen to you?
This made me smile, but it made me think more. It’s unfortunate that you have to deal with people in category 5 at all. To this day, I have no idea why some people believe that sexual orientation and morality share a direct, positive relation. Sadly, that belief is still very strong. Wish you all the best. 🙂
I enjoyed reading your article and the humor that you mix in here and there. Nice work !
Wonderful post! Thank you for sharing that. It’s for such reasons I wish my home city was a little more like Los Angeles…
I live in Jerusalem
🙂
Yay for twins! I have two year old twin girls. Are you at the screaming stage yet? The punching and hitting and weeping? Or is that just my house? 🙂
It would be great if everyone with children had to put as much thought and effort into making that decision as you clearly have. The world would certainly be a better place.
Oh wow. I feel like I live in a totally different part of the world after reading this post. I’m in the US, sure, but in my area there aren’t a lot of homosexual couples that I know of.
I’m from a conservative, Christian home, with straight but divorced parents. I believe that homosexuality is wrong, but hey, I can’t stop you. I can’t change your mind. It’s a moot point. You do what you want with who you want, and I won’t try to stop you. After reading your post, I have tried to place myself in one of those 5 characteristics. I’m probably not 5, since I tend to be more laid back than the description. I might be somewhere along the lines of Jaded Ally, since I do have a lesbian friend, and my reaction to finding that out was shock hidden under a smile and an “Oh, really? That’s nice.”
Anyhow, I enjoyed your post. I also admire you for being a daddy. Mine has left me with a bad taste in my mouth. I do have a word of advice. If you have a daughter, keep her aunt or some other female role close, so that when she hits puberty she doesn’t freak out about pimples, crushes, shaving and other feminine issues. It helps to have someone who can explain it. 🙂
wow. ahaahahaahahaaha. Now THATS too funny!!!!
Really well written. Great post. I look forward to reading more of your stuff.
http://www.theunderstander.wordpress.com
Jerry, I find myself trying to…um, not so much understand as to form an opinion on your “story”, not so much the post, alone. You have catagorized people and cleary stated they are one of these 5! Yet, you speak of open mindedness. Anyway, I wonder what having an open mind means to you, and do you have one, really.
You may immediately put me into that 5th class but, you would not be entirely correct. Yes, I am absolutely for God, and absolutely against homosexuality. However, I try to practise something that some call Accurate Thinking. That simply means that I try to look at every piece of the picture and apply my biblical beliefs, and all others, accordingly. Have you put me in that group 5, yet. Well, if so, I would ask that you seperate me from them, or most of them. Ah, but that’s the question: Can your open mind allow me to retain my belief, my stance, and yet allow me to move toward a positive relationship in your life. (It’s a hypothetical, don’t know you at all.) Have you ever heard a woman use that sneering word “Men!” I tell them to please seperate me from that group. And you think you get wierd looks. “Oh! Your not a man??” “Yes ‘mam, I certainly am but, I’m not a member of that “Men!” Club!”, as I sneer back at them.
That’s the seperation I’m talking about. Most Christians have no problem throwing homosexuality out of their life but, they also have no problem throwing out the homosexual, and that is simply not the way it’s supposed to work. Open mindedness. does that mean, to you, that I must accept your life style? Or, does it mean – don’t slam the door at the moment of realization of the situation. I mean that’s what you want right, for people to come a little further in, to see the love (it may confuse you about me but, I know that can be real), to see your genuine effort to give the twins a home and meet their needs. Have you done that towards us, the correct us, anyway.
I have two post on my site that I’d like you go take a look at. One shows my opinion on homosexuality. I won’t back down from that but, neither does my stand mean that I shouldn’t be descent person toward you. The other, about racism and prejudice, is where I try to show that a person is to be regaurded above your opinion of there situation, or their choices. Have a great day!
Lloyd: Re-read the descriptions that Jerry offered, especially for the Moral Crusader. He’s not talking about all religious people there. He’s talking about the in-your-face folks who aren’t willing to live and let live, despite their religious objections. He’s talking about people who will challenge the legitimacy of gay and lesbian parents to our faces and in front of our kids. If you want to claim that label, that’s cool. But the characterization he described and your own self-characterization don’t really mesh.
I did exactly as you asked, I read it again. He did elude to a seperation of “the ones that get in your face…” and, I guess, the others. In your reply you honestly confused me about the label thing. So, if I choose one of your labels, I choose the live and let live. One of the points I was trying to make, refering to your non-meshing characterizations, was exactly that. I don’t want to be meshed in with the in your face, bashing, don’t consider the child standing there catagory. I think if you read more carefully, you’ll see my comments were not at all about Jerry being gay. It was an attempt to seek out Jerry as a person. Yea he’s gay, I GOT that. But that’s all there is?? There is much more to the person of Jerry, and you, and me. I uphold my beliefs but I don’t hold them over you or beat you with them. Can you respect that I have these beliefs, while I try to show respect for you as a person, even if we don’t agree on this subject. ( and you were respectful in your reply, this is not going there.)
The last thing; now, I could have missed it, but I haven’t seen a response from Jerry. He may ignore me, that too is his choice. But, I hope it’s because he doesn’t rashly shoot from the hip. Maybe he’s reading my posts. I don’t know but, I care about my comments and their replys so, I’ll check back later, too. Have great day.
i dont think he is nescasarily catagorizing all people into 5 catagories. This is obvious, otherwize his own catagory wouldnt even exist, would it? People who say they are ‘against’ homosexuality obviously feel its a choice. Its not – its a natural tendency toward the same sex, just as natural a sex drive as your own. if, however, you dont feel it is a choice, why then you are just against your fellow human being. Thats even worse. Smart and decent as you are, my friend, you fall into one of my catagories: ‘Uneducated and Just Dont Get It’. There’s no room for people like you in my life either. na-na-nana-na. 🙂
Hmm. I’ve never met gay dads, though now I know a little bit about how I could respond. Thanks!
Loved the blog. I am not gay or a dad, I live in a small community in southern Virginia. I am a strong supporter for gay people to have the same rights as straight. I work with children and families and I have seen so many children get hurt. With that being said that it should not matter whether the parents are gay or straight. As for those crusaders they are very much mistaken. I am a Christian and I know the God I serve loves all, no matter what. So please know that not all Christians feel the same way. Thanks for sharing your story, hope to hear more.
This was of the funniest articles I’ve read in a while, very entertaining and I loved reading about your life and your point of view on raising kids, it was awesome (;
Hi, I’m a single mum who lives is Brisbane Australia…I have a 17 year old teenage daughter about to finish High School and am a Secondary school teacher.(and 2 daughters married with children)
I am in my mid 50’s and grew up in an extended family….my mum,3 aunts and my grandmother…I recall as a child some people not knowing how to figure out in their minds our family situation…it wasn’t a problem for me or my brother…our family was very supportive and brought us up with love and caring.
The point is..that is all a child needs, and if ignorant people can’t get their heads around your family dynamic then that is their problem.
This is a wonderful post, and I’m glad you were freshly pressed. It’s unfortunate that we don’t live in a more tolerant world, but hopefully we’re getting better and better. Thanks for sharing these thoughts and I definitely hope you never have to meet the moral crusaders! Best wishes to you and your lovely family.
Super post! Is there a catagory for, “Babies!!! Can I holed them?”
Wow. That was a lotta comments that I wanted to skim through but it would take me a day. They all looked like they loved your post 🙂 Very well written and congrats on FP. The pictures were so funny and you expressed everything perfectly.
The main thing that you need for children is a happy home. Whatever makes it. Best of luck fighting off those boogeymen if they ever decide to show their faces. Punch them out for all the rest of us.
This is great and so true! People really are so transparent with their judgements or fear of being seen as judgemental. Thanks for sharing! I got a laugh out of several of your statements, although I’m sure it’s not always a laughing matter. I love that your approach is “that some people are clueless and it is your job to educate them” – that is such a great life lesson – not just about being openly gay but about being openly yourself.
I love this post! I think two dads (or two moms) are so much better than no dads. It’s ridiculous that gay couples cannot adopt more easily. Congratulations on twins, and you ARE a great dad for always having their backs.
Really good post. As long as you love your kids, doesn’t matter if you’re straight, gay, or into animals. Just take care of your little ones.
Also, gays are not responsible for the breakdown of the American family; everybody knows it’s those bastards at McDonald’s.
love this – so funny. i run into this just being a single gay man. the BFF’s, who suddenly want to protect you from, like, everything. that freaks me out, as im pretty reserved. I’ve also noticed that they will turn on you in a flash if enough people tell them they are wrong. I avoid them.
the jaded allies i’ve found accept and just move on. they’r not impressed, although after you get to know them, you still need to educate them. I’ve some really good straight friends that fall into this group. Some apparent jaded allies are actually closet homophobes, you have to be really tentative with them.
with closet homophobes, i’ve found after they say nice to meet you, goodbye, it better be just that. they will snub you if you meet again, all politeness lost, and turn absolutely nasty if they feel you are intruding into their little circle of straightness and exposing their true homophobia. They recognize the fear as unreasonable, but just cant help it for whatever reason. NEVER expose them as homophobic, they get really crazy.
As for the head scratchers, they really ARE amusing, arent they? they just dont get it. When they hear im 47 years old and never been with a woman, their first reaction is i should just TRY it, ill change. yuck.
shudder.
Morale Crusaders are cowards, you wont meet them one on one. They crusade in groups. they arent moral crusaders really, they are people who are afraid of anything that is different from their reality. i pity them. I also hate them. They are EVIL. if you meet them as a group, walk away. the bitterness and ugly they will bring out in you is just not worth the trauma to your physce. i kinda compare em to hitler, God is only for me and mine you are not a person. I always point out this is probably true, as my God dined with thieves and lepers and all kinds of undesireables, because my God is everybodies God and loved and loves all people.
however, there is also moral crusaders who arent evil. these are the ones that just look at you and sadly say your wrong, they love you, they wont judge you, but the book says your going to hell, so wont you please change? wont you know my happiness? These ones arent evil or nasty or full of hate. I still turn away from them tho. God created me. Gay. Homosexuality is not a choice. They just dont get it.
My heart aches for those family who have turned away from God because of moral crusaders. Not to be going all religous or anything, but God is very real to me, and shows me his love in very real, jaw-dropping ways. I feel it is wrong for moral crusaders to take that away from someone. Very wrong. I pray you too, enjoy a quality relationship with God, and will raise your kids to be open-minded about religion. That will be tough. Thing to remember there is that any religion be it buddah or God or allah is an individuals decision. Its not one you can make for your kids. That goes for straight or gay parenthood. its a toughy for sure.
thats me as a gay man. as for a gay parent? I would be all i said above times 100. you have my admiration for sure. all parents are protective of their kids, and while you seem like your handling it, i know it still must be hard.
What is great, tho, is your kids have family, and in more ways than one. Im quite confident they will grow into outstanding individuals.
oh, and thanks for leaving comments open. makes for really entertaining reading lol. your comments will go on forever 🙂
You’ve done a nice job of analyzing and categorizing the people that you meet. But why do that?
It’s part of human nature to analyze and categorize people, it makes it easier to do a vast number of things including market research but for personal use it helps prepare the person with responses for each scenario to some degree.
Good points, especially if you work in market research. I take it that you feel a need to “be prepared” for the people that you meet. You have categorized people based on “responses to you/your family”, and I infer that they are responding to you based on categorizations of their own. Seems like a no-win situation, about as fruitful as a Kennedy Democrat and a Palin Republican having a debate. While being prepared is your responsibility as a parent, what are you modeling for the children?
I’ve felt the need to be prepared for the people I meet in recent years because I unfortunately grew up expecting everybody to be kinder and more civil than High School was. It’s not the case however.
I personally work in retail and I find myself surprised by customers frequently, but for the most part they fall into a few different categories. Disgruntled, chatty, happy, get-the-item(s)-and-go, crying child(ren) in tow, “the customer is always right”, and my favorite one ‘Why don’t you know what is in your ad this week?!’ when they are the one shopping for the item not myself. I work market, electronics, cash register, and ‘hard lines’ (everything that isn’t the clothes or baby items) so I get to see them all.
When I first started if I didn’t have a response to anything the more hostile customers asked they would take it as a “Ha I’m right!” thing…when your lifestyle or job requires you to defend yourself against those who just don’t get it is necessary to have a short list of ‘go-to’ answers to make sure that your best interests are protected.
Fair enough. Do your categories work irrespective of age, or do you find certain age groups less civil or more civil than others? Do people distribute through your categories without respect to age, or do some categories seem to attract a greater number of persons of about the same age?
The only indicator I normally get at the most likely group for a customer is the look on their face within the first 10 seconds of our conversation. Some people are on the border of being disgruntled without them even realizing it. I have had many rude customers in the last 7 months but the rudest are in different demographic, I have had all age groups, almost all ethnicities, male and female, and several walks of life be rude when i try to politely help them. But asides from them being 60% female there is no demographic that has been ruder than the others. Sometimes it is them having a bad day that determines which group they fall in, other times it is just their personality. I have had people with crying kids in tow make an effort to be pleasant despite having to practically give their kid a toy just to keep them from crying again, other times the person is in a horrid mood and they make no apologies about it and will use their outside voice to get their way lol. But my point is that it is more about how the person was raised, their own experiences, and what kind of day they are having when determining what group somebody is in. And that can’t be done until the conversation started.
I am on my phone to type this (and the previous response) so I forgot what your biggest question was. No age group is ruder than any other, they are just rude in other ways. Younger people typically roll their eyes if they don’t like my response or cuss. Around the 25+ are that mostly stops but then the “now don’t you go fixing that price before I get up there” or “you cant find the item I want in your store? It is on your website, I want to talk to your manager.” Or similar things happen. I’m 23 and still get asked if i am 16 so I am sure they assume I don’t know how to do my job or that my job entirely revolves around ripping them off lol. Customers in their 50+ years are typically mellow or slower to rise, but I still get accused of not knowing my job…or told they need to stop hiring teenagers (again, 23)…but through all of the age groups one thing is the same…if they are trying to rip us off via wrong coupons, switched tags, fake prints from other stores, or other methods…chances are most of them are going to be rude…either to the manager, our CSR, or myself.
I can certainly see you running into those types of people but the last type is typically in places that are very religious or deal with other problems besides homophobia to this day (think modern day hate groups like the ANP and others that have had a strong hate message in the past — I make it a point to not know too much about them so I don’t know what they’re about now). Meetings with that last one even if they aren’t in a group like ANP are not likely to go well however, they are people who are closed minded so sometimes it’s best just to move on as quickly as possible (without butchering your message if possible)
Both my boyfriend and myself are a mixed version of #1 and #2 and while I won’t make an insane effort to be your BFF chances are I was nice to you before I found out and most of the time I treat people like they treat me (unless I’m at work, then I try to be as polite as possible no matter what).
We’re the type that unless we actually know them we won’t ask and even then most of the time we won’t. It’s not because knowing will change our opinion of the person or anything like that…it’s more to the point that as long as the children look well cared for and happy (crying child syndrome aside) it’s none of my business how many of which parents they have.
A good parent is a good parent no matter if they’re straight, gay, single, or married…or any combination within.
Loved your post! I think my 4 year old son and I are some where in between a number one and two. It is completely common place for us to speak of Erik’s husband Bobby or Chloe’s moms. What makes me so excited is that there are more and more of us 1.5 type families around. By the time my son is grown, the threes will be reformed, the fours will have nothing to be confused about and the fives will have the common sense to keep their dumb shit to themselves!
♥ & ☺
Thank you so much for this great post and for making me smile a little today. Be strong!
I truly believe you are absolutely an epitome of “a good example” of humanity; hence parenthood. I truly wish nothing but the best for you, your husband and your children. Congratulations for making Freshly Pressed, I Loved your post!
Loved this post! I doubt if you have to concern yourself much with the “moral crusader” type, they are typically cowardly.
Great blog!
I too am a gay Dad, however, I used to be straight and married and have three grown children and am now happily interracially partnered for 7 years and we get along famously with my ex-wife and her husband and all three adult children. Whew! I THINK I got ALL the cards on the table there. LOL. I need to write a book (but will settle for a blog or two).
It IS sometimes a challenge to get through the introductions at many a social event and the facial expressions can be interesting, but I for one, wouldn’t want it any other way!
Love to you all.
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Great post! Congrats on getting this Freshly Pressed. Love the way to tell the story with such a sense of humor! Keep up the great parenting!
“Where’s your wife?” “Where’s their mommy?” “I wish my husband would take the kids to the park sometimes.”
My husband, who is a stay-at-home Dad, gets these comments too. They upset him, but I suppose it’s par for the course.
When we adopted son 2, I was prepared for all kinds of invasive and judgmental comments. We didn’t meet our Boogey Man either.
A few people have felt the need to state that none of my 3 sons looks alike. Son 2 is Asian and they other 2 are not, so duh on that one, and personally, I think sons 1 and 3 looks A LOT alike. People have felt the need t o suggest that the appearnace of my sons might mean that I am really, really….easy. I figure these people simply aren’t right to start with. Who in their RIGHT mind walks around looking at people’s kids wondering if they all have different Dads?
Heh. Anyway…I digress…
Good for you for doing what’s right, what your babies need, and for being so cheerful about Types 1 and 2, who would probably get on a lot of people’s nerves (mine, for instance;). Congrats on FP too!
This is such a hopeful post. I absolutely love the thought that there are no “haters” out there. Even worst case, if they are hypocrites just being polite…well, at least they are polite!
Hi! It was really nice to read this… As a Christian, I hear about gays all the time from both homophobes and pro-homosexuals, but never from the gay men or women themselves. In fact, I’ve never met a gay man OR women, at least not any that were out of the closet and willing to talk about it. And, again as a Christian, I think you need to have a Type 6 on here, even though you’ve never heard of us sixers and we are, unfortunately, even more rare than the Type 5s. Type 6s are the Christians who actually make it their goal to represent Jesus in the same way He represented Himself — constantly showing fiercely unconditional love to EVERYONE He met. The man dined with prostitutes and tax collectors (the latter being the Biblical equivalent of today’s lawyers) and spent time among lepers. He would never have shouted down a homosexual about their sins. So a Type 6 is a Christian who, even though he/she does believe that homosexuality is wrong, still wants to be your friend as long as you’re nice, will inteligently and honestly answer the questions of their children (f.e., “Mom, why don’t they have a mommy?” “Well, because they’re something that’s called gay.” “What does gay mean?” “It means that two men — or women — fell in love with each other and decided to get married.”), will make a decided effort to love and be loving towards you, and, even though they’ll let you know that they aren’t comfortable with your lifestyle (and yes, for Biblical reasons — I don’t like the word religious) they will never preach at you, tell you you’re going to Hell (unless you ask US why we believe what we believe, and even then we will purposely do it in a way as far from hateful as possible) or speak any words of hatred over you, your husband, your children, or surrogate. In fact, we’ll often tell you how proud we are that you are willing to be so open and strong about what you believe without being forceful or rude. We tend to rehearse these conversations in our head so that if we ever DO meet a gay couple or family, we will know what to say and not feel that we have nothing to fallback on but the old “YOU’RE GAY SO YOU’RE GOING TO HELL!!” attack. Our goal is to not be any of the types 1-5. We may not be your dream type, but I swear, we don’t hate you, and there are Christians out there who refuse under any circumstances to become a Type 5. Thank God, not all of us Christians are religious Zealots with a penchant for trying to send people to Hell. In fact, most of us aren’t. I think the reason you’ve never met a Type 5 is because there just aren’t a whole lot of them out there, not even in upper middle class conservative Baptist churches from the South. Most of us Christians want to be Type 6 but aren’t sure how to be your friend without letting go of our Biblical standards and beliefs. So give us some time and a chance to meet you, most of us will turn out to be Type 6. 🙂 (It’s also really cool how you talk about your kids. You sound like a freakin’ amazing dad. Keep up the good work!)
As a straight father, most dads would be appalled to have their son turn out gay. As a gay father, what is your view on that subject?
What a stupid question, I will be appalled if my son turns out like you.
As a straight father, you shouldn’t be appalled to have a son “turn out gay.” It shouldn’t be any more or less appalling than him turning out to be an athlete, and should definitely be less shocking than if he turned out to be a rock star or the president or something.
P.S. Next time, will you please word a potentially valid question in such a way that isn’t highly offensive? Okaythanks.
As a str8 father I am as proud of my gay son as I am my str8 son. My only fear when my son came out was that I could not protect him from ignorance!
I love this post! So eloquent and direct at the same time. It takes all kinds to create families, and I just love that you and your partner are out there as a shining example of love, humor, and commitment to great parenting. Rock on!
Really enjoyed reading this, and all the good feedback. I don’t know what category I would fall into as – and I’m so surprised at this realisation – I’ve never met gay parents! I have spent most of my life living on a mountain in South Wales mind. I hope I would be somewhere between 1 and 2. A 1.5?
Wonderfully written post. As a member of an ONA church (IUCC.org), we see blended families all the time. It’s lovely to see how happy *every* child is with parents who love them. Everything else is just window dressing.
Not a gay dad, but a single mom (not by divorce or death) and trust me… some of these categories could work for either of us lol! This literally had me cracking up laughing: “Then they’ll quietly slip away to pray or throw up or something.” Great post!
Hilarious post … and very thought provoking. I fear I may have some of the attributes of a Type1, but it’s not too late to change. Thanks for the reality check 🙂
That is exactly what happens to me too!
If that is your son in the header, he is very cute. I thought there was a twin….
I loved this. You’d think that there would be an in-between from BFFs and Feigned Indifference, though. Very nearly everyone in our lives is gay or bisexual (both his father and I are bi), and I don’t think it will occur to my son until much later in the school-age era that not all boys kiss boys and girls, and not all girls kiss boys and girls. Its just not a part of our lives. So, you’d think that supportive indifference would actually be a much more common response…They’re happy for you, as they would be to any other family, but its honestly not…novel enough to make a scene, etc. over.
EL OH EL — what a fun read!
Hah, this is awesome. I’ve promised a friend to be this/their surrogate/egg donor, and I can’t wait for these reactions. I hope I find as much eloquence and humor in these situations as you do!
They took this off fresh pressed before I had the chance to read it, so I had to seek you out! I’m proud to say I have several lesbian mommy families and no clue where those kids came from – I feel it’s not my business to ask unless they want to share. But maybe I should pry!! Thanks for the awesome and funny post!
Your classifications just totally made my morning. Well explained and hilarious. Nice insight.
great..like it
n come again n again to your blog
🙂
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Hey, I am a bisexual teenager struggling with being ike this. I can see that you are completely happy with your family, and I just want to know how you came to be like this. I have not for real came out to anyone I know. The first time I actually said it out loud for anyone to hear was on my blog (which i recently started). I would love to come out to my friends and family, but it is extremely hard, as im sure you know. Could you please give me some help as to how I can tell everyone I know and be accepted. Thanks
This makes me want to write a “The 5 People You Meet as an Adoptive Parent or Foster Parent” post. ….e.g. “Are the other kids yours?”, “What if they give you a black kid?”. Great post!
As a “gaybe” (I prefer “queerspawn”) I find your depictions hilarious and very true. Those are the five types. I haven’t seen any haters (other than the Westboro Baptist Church, but that’s different) in my 18 years, although it’s still a “fear” of mine.
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Great post. I am glad you are not offended by those latter two. As a Buddhist myself I find it completely unnecessary to label people because they are like this or like that. Take care! Cheers.
I just love how openly and honestly you share the story of your family. My husband and I have a number of gay friends so I hope that our children will get an opportunity to experience all different types of families…Please continue to brighten my day with your words 🙂
5 categories of people who look at this blog.
1. People who don’t look.
2. People who look outward at what others do – like the blogger.
3. People who look inward – hopefully all the readers!
4. People who look for reasons not to look inward.
5. People who like to look beyond what is here – like me.
Categorizing is what we do because it’s is how we learn. And while categorizing people helps us process – it can also minimize and create assumptions, over-simplification, generalization and sometimes prejudice.
Like first we put all people into the category of being straight. Toddlers might say all animals are dogs. Then we learn that not all people are straight or dogs. Then hopefully we learn that straight or gay – not all people are kind or open or christian or good parents etc. And that’s probably the category I’m in – interested, curious, hoping you are good parents as I hope all parents are good parents – but not getting too far ahead of myself.
It’s challenging living outside a big category (or expectation). But when you do (as you clearly do and for different reasons so do I) you become a teacher of others whether you like it or not. For many people, you are there at the birth of a new neurological connection. And each birth is unique.
The only thing about this blog that I would love to see is a bit more kindness toward those who are giving birth right in front of you. And a hint of idea that we must all recognize the limits of categorization. But then that’s because I am a Category 5! 🙂
Interesting! I never thought of it like that about how all the different types of people you meet, you can so easily categorize them. It must be entertaining. I am looking forward to seeing these similar types of reactions to people when people find out my newly open younger brother is gay.
Well said and by the way I’ve met those type of christians cause my family are christians but you get that 7 years later Dad is still in denial n brother still ignores me! But my brother isn’t christian. Went to a wedding and the man up the front said the name of marriage is being dragged in the mud by homosexuals at that point me n my partner left. Count yourself lucky you haven’t met any
You guys are amazing – true inspirations. What a lovely family. Keep writing! the ultimateoptimist from Dublin Ireland.
I just came across this. You guys are great and your children are lucky because as long as two people love each other and love their children and give them the support they need to grow into caring adults, it doesn’t or shouldn’t matter if your gay. Loving a child and teaching a child to be a good person is all that matters. 🙂
this is fantastic
This post is awesome! I think I would be a BFF, so cliché. Thanks so much for sharing, you really made my day 🙂
I was looking for something fun and maybe inspiring to read before heading off to work. I saw the topic and thought, ‘Nah, I really don’t want to read a gay story.’ Against that thought, I clicked on the link and started reading, intending to take in a couple sentences. I couldn’t stop and lapped it up in its entirety. Beautifully written! One of the better blogs I have read
Now, let me put myself out there to be ripped apart. I am a Christian and believe solely in the Bible but I am also open minded and try not to be judge, jury and executioner. This means that I am not going to tell anyone what their sexual orientation should be and judge you based on your choice. Saying this, I do strongly believe that a child should be brought up in a home with a mommy and daddy. The traditional way. Yes you may say “But as long as there is love in the home, that is what matters.” I don’t agree with that but it’s just me and my opinion. No amount of dads put together can provide what a mother can provide.
Keep blogging!
Hi Enigma,
I assume that when you say “No amount of dads put together can provide what a mother can provide” you are talking about milk, because I can’t think of anything else. Oh, and you can buy that, but two loving parents you can’t.
That’s an interesting point.
I have a friend who was raised by her single father after her mother died of breast cancer when she was only a few months old. Amazingly enough, she’s alive and she’s a functioning adult. So, in fact, it appears a man can raise a healthy, well-adjusted young lady. I’d imagine the same applies to having two men raising a young lady, or a single mother raising a son, or two mom’s raising a son. That argument doesn’t hold any water if you’re talking fact and not opinion.
If you’d do a little research, you’d see that there’s scientific proof that children of same-sex couples grow up to be productive members of society,
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I cried I laughed so hard while reading this! My hubby and I are raising our little boy in the Buckle of the Bible Belt (NE Oklahoma). We’ve met every group you’ve described. I had to share this with all of my friends and family because it’s so accurate and hilarious.
We’ve met a few moral crusaders. It hasn’t been a big deal because I’m pretty good at telling them to back off in a way that’s friendly, a little funny but pretty stern. If that approach doesn’t work, I just tell them to screw off…in the name of Jesus.
So, I’m curious. It doesn’t sound like you respect any of these reactions. The first classification seems “okay” to you, but even that one doesn’t seem to be a category I’d like to fit into. So, tell us: what reaction do you hope for? How should those of us who support marriage and family equality respond to you when we learn that your children have two dads? Nothing snarky here, I’m curious. I want to know. Because I’m tired of being classified as uncool or masking my homophobia simply because I myself am not gay. There are lots of us who are totally cool with marriage and family equality, but we’re assumed to be either judging gay parents or “overdoing it” in terms of enthusiasm (which presumes a false level of support). So, what should we say? Tell us.
That’s a fair comment. Honestly, as long as people mean well, I appreciate their reaction. Even if someone goes over the top, I leave thinking, “Wow, they’re really sweet.” My point is more just that I hadn’t anticipated that level of enthusiasm before I became a dad. Just be yourself, have your natural reaction, and if you’re positive and sincere, I’m sure the person will be very grateful.
Amazing writing! I was smiling and laughing the whole time. love the hilarious illustrations. can’t wait to read more.
Mimi
Hi, your article was excellent, and I so recognized myself as one of your new BFF’s 😉 I know I had that reaction the first time I was introduced to my now very good friends…
Having twins as well, you probably runs into some of the stupid questions people can ask on that account, as well. My friend Caroline in London had a melt down after a day at the park, you might want to read it : http://ellengry.wordpress.com/2011/09/30/what-people-might-ask-about-twins/
Best regards, Ellengry
You and your partner sound like great dads. Your twins are lucky to have both of you as their parents. 🙂
Thanks!
Nice post. I was checking continuously this blog and I am impressed! Extremely useful information specifically the last part 🙂 I care for such information a lot. I was seeking this certain information for a long time. Thank you and best of luck.
A very good article on being a gay parent. Keep up the good work. All my best to your family.
I have gay dads and I completely agree with your post. In fact, I teach a continuing education course to other social workers about working with our families and have said almost the exact same things lol. Now I will just print out and use your post if that’s okay.
Awesome! I’m going to brag that this post is now certified by a professional! 🙂
Yay! It is 🙂 I’m looking forward to more.
hahaha made me laugh out loud. great post
Hi. My partner Sally and I have twins too, and they just turned 3. Identical girls, Rose and Genevieve. We get a couple more annoying responses: was it IVF? I always feel likesaying “Mmm, do you have fertility problems too? And how’s your sex life, while we’re on the subject?” then there’s the people who think Sally must be the grandma because the kids call her Ma. But the most annoying is the person who has known you for almost a year, eg hairdresser or friend of a relative, who forgets this key detail about your life and you have to come out again over and over. It makes you feel invisible. I include here the GP who gave me a pregnancy test without asking permission because I had nausea. I had been seeing him for a couple of years. Anyway, in spite of the whingeing I love being a gay mum of twins. I don’t know any other gay parents even though I am president of our local multiple birth association which runs five playgroups. So it’s been very nice to meet you!
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Thanks, Dad Loves Daddy! It’s really flattering coming from a blog I like so much myself!
I ama mother of twins, are you in a twins club? Best part of having twins. I give my kids, but there are times I need adult conversation from people that understand.
We were in a twins group until the kids turned 18 months old, at which point they “graduated”. I miss it! I definitely need that adult interaction, too. One of the reasons I love blogging — getting to hear from other people who relate to what I’m going through!
So funny
Awesome! Thanks for your posts!
I am a single mostly-out lesbian mother of one and hoping to again adopt internationally. I am also an ordained pastor. The number 5s I’ve run across tend to be more concerned that I’m a pastor than that I’m a mother. “A gay pastor? Not in my church…the bible says…”
I meet the 1-4s at so many different levels – first it’s usually inter-racial/international adoption. Everything from: “WOW!-It’s-so-awesome-that-you -open-your-life-to-a-child-in-need. She’s so blessed/lucky.” (In reality, I’m the one who is blessed! She’s an amazing kid!) To: “My sister’s a single mom and she’s got three of them.” To: “Well isn’t that sweet.” To: “Are you not aware there are kids right here that need families?” To: “But they (the people of her birth country) are stealing our technology, hacking into our infrastructure system, stealing our jobs”… unfortunately the one I hear this from the most lives right across the street, and he doesn’t care if my child is listening or not.
After adoption, I usually get the single parent comments, then pk/pastor kid comments, and finally the lesbian mom comments…I’m guessing that’s because I’m only “mostly-out” and it’s not as obvious as I’m still single.
Thanks for your great insights!
I love reading the comments I get on this post — people’s ignorance and rudeness is truly astounding. I can’t believe the “They’re stealing our technology” comments. If it weren’t for your kid hearing that, it’d be so absurd it’s almost hilarious.
Whatever the case, kudos to you for enduring it all and focusing on your kid instead. Know that even if we don’t live near you or know you personally, there are plenty of us out there who have your back, as a single mom, lesbian, pastor or anything else.
oh, and I agree on group 6 and 7! #6 I’ve had several LGBT folks inquire about growing their famililes through adoption. #7 I also know several kids, tweens, teens and adults who were raised in 2 mom or 2 dad families, or single parent lgbt families.
I really enjoyed reading this, thanks!
I’m loved your post and am just trying to work out which of the five categories I would fit into. Maybe a bit of the first two…. A bit enthusiastic,a bit nonchalent, but really, what you and other daddy do together is not really my business. Unless you neglect, starve and beat your children, then it should be anyone’s business! I like to think that am just open minded, non judgemental, kind and friendly, and willing to lend an ear or a hand when required. Good on you, however, for not being scared off by whatever scaremongers are out there. It sounds like your little family will be just fine!
As a mom of a gay son I have had similar encounters. I grew up on the South and fought tooth and nail against racism. I corrected and halted ignorant opinions and speech at each occurrence. I joined the military and had to constantly prove that not all people from the South are racist. (There are not as many as most people think). It isn’t just racism it is religious “overachievement”…or hypocrisy at its best. It seems I was training for my life as the mom of a gay son. I won’t tolerate hate! Not to mention the fact that most know that it isn’t wise to mess with my cubs unless they want to see this momma lion’s claws. “The closet homophobes” and “moral crusaders ” seem to be our most common encounter. I have only had a few friends seem comfortable around me after talking about my family. Those people are the only ones I return to.
Your son is lucky to have you, and you’re lucky to have found some friends who support you and your family fully. As long as you have that, the haters can’t hurt you.
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you are lucky to live in LA, that’s all I can say,, try East of Europe and the story would be a bit different,, to put it this way,, any of your 5 categories is pretty good comparing to what other scenarios can be,, and the most important thing is that you can have the family you want, and your kids, and a legal recognized partner that you love,, if you have that, the rest matters less than a bad minute in the cosmic eternity,, nothing,,
I’m trying to think how I would react if I met you while sitting on a park bench watching our kids play. I think i would be curious about your experience, the same way i would be curious about what it’s like to raise triplets, or what it’s like to be a single parent – none of which i see as out of the normal, just outside of MY realm of experience. I think i would be curious about the hurdles you have faced and will face because of the 3, 4 and 5ers, and how you chose to deal (or not deal) with them. I think it’s human nature to be interested in things that are new to one, or outside of one’s experience, and that the best thing a person can do is be courteous in how they deal with that interest, from either side of that equation. As it seems you are doing from your post. And if i do inadvertently or ignorantly offend, i hope that someone would have the patience give me the benefit of the doubt and to educate me for the future.
On a side note, it’s kind of funny to read through some of the comments because so many come off as a 1 or a 2, etc, that it totally backs up your post that there are only so many responses that you get 🙂
Thanks — and yes, you put it very well. I welcome any interest I get from people and tend to give them the benefit of the doubt about their intentions. Even when people come across as rude, they don’t always realize it, so it’s best to just let them know rather than take offense.
In general, I’m always grateful when someone asks questions rather than just stares.
Ahhh interesting blog post you have here! Hilarious and absolutely informative because I bet as hilarious at it may sound it must be quite stressful to address different kinds of reactions! 😀
It’s stressful at times, but other times it’s like a game, wondering how someone will respond. 🙂
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Hi there. My wife and I are 8 weeks pregnant with twins (I’m carrying). So glad I found your blog, thanks!
Congratulations! Way back when I gave some tips on this blog about raising twins. It’s definitely an adventure!
This post is incredibly good, it matches the types of people I met . I am sorry to hear #5 don’t exist or it is too rare, because I worked so hard in my argument for years and as soon as I decide to become a father and I never get to use it – LOL.
I guess #5 only exist behind an anonymous face in the internet where they can express their ideas without the fear to be inappropriate or to get their stupidity exposed. After all, they only fight for an ideal in order to be a part of and not to find themselves not belonging to any society as it seems to be their biggest fear (this make any sense? sorry English is not my first language)
Anyway it is great to have all the types classified now and have their labels ready when they approach.
Yeah, in general it’s best to avoid internet comments. It brings out the worst in people. The good thing is knowing that most of those people don’t have the guts to be so hateful in person. You disarm them instantly just by being open and proud of who you are.
Unfortunately, #5 exist in real life, too. E.g. my mother-in-law who thinks gay marriage is a sin and raising children as gay parents is torture for the kids. She contacted the youth welthfare office more than once because we “refuse our kids the right to grow up in a loving and normal family”. Unsurprisingly, we haven’t seen her in a while. Then, (in our case) there are the men, who think we just haven’t met the right men. Unfortunately, they don’t just think it, they say it out loud. In front of our kids. One of them, a little boy, who is our foster child, got very confused about that and he was scared that we could kind of change our minds (about our relationship and as a consequence about him being with us) and he would then have to leave us. (He hadn’t been with us that long when the incident with the *real men* happened.)
But you are right, Juan, most #5s hide in the internet because when nobody knows who you are, it is very easy to offend or to downgrade others. Most of those wouldn’t dare to speak up in real life.
#5 could also be called “AKA The Cowards”–because they DO exist, you just don’t encounter them since they only do their bullsh** in straight spaces when you and your family aren’t around and then fake it to your faces. This is where our job as allies comes in–we fight them for you.
Aw. I love this kind of ally! Thanks! (I’m in a lesbian marriage and currently 19 weeks pregnant with our own set of twins:-))
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Two Dads are better than one, or none.
Pretty nice post. I just stumbled upon your weblog and wanted to say that I have really enjoyed browsing your blog posts.
In any case I’ll be subscribing to your rss feed and I
hope you write again very soon!
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Je publie ce petit commentaire simplement pour congratuler l’administrateur
Je suis venu sur ce post par mégarde : je ne le regrette point !!!
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Une fois de plus un article réellement captivant
Great article! I know these sorts of people, all 5 of them! And I’m not even a gay parent. I think we have slightly less nr. 5’s here in the Netherlands than in America, but it depends on where in the US you live perhaps. Oh well. As I can read it you have a perfect way of dealing with all the types. You sound like a super happy family, and that is really all that counts (no matter what kind of reactions others have). Lovely article, really funny. Thanks for posting! 🙂
Je n’ai point fini de lire par contre je passerai ce soir
Je vais terminer de regarder ça dans la semaine
Est-il possіƄle Ԁe ϲopier deux-troisparagraphes ssur
mon sitye perslnnel ?
As my partner and I live in a state that doesn’t have marriage equality yet, we’re not married, but we have some funny encounters anyway.
We travel quite a bit, both on our own as well as in groups.
As there is a 26 year age difference (and it works, 14 years and counting)
We get some funny responses to introducing ourselves as partners. Many people just don’t seem to hear partner, or if they do, they think “business partner”
We have an older hetrosexual couple who we sometimes find ourselves traveling with because we have similar travel interests. No matter what I tell them, We’re life partners, we’re “together”, ect, they nod as if they understand and then inveriably will ask “now, is your son married, and if so, why doesn’t she ever travel with you?” or, “it’s so nice of you to always bring your son on these trips”.
We’ve just given up and allow them to think whatever they want. It’s just easier for us.
That’s pretty significant and like I said, they’ve probably already occurred as well
but if you are arrogant and hard to remain silent. Did you know has been pulled over for DUI,
intoxicated the police or public witnesses. I look forward
to hearing from you?
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Yep, I agree for adults.
But when other kids start talking, then it’s a whole new game. They don’t mind asking the questions that adults won’t. They don’t mind telling you what their parents say in their own homes. And they don’t mind asking you to help them make sense of it all. I never know what I’m going to get from kids at the playground.
Lol to #5!! Great article.
This site was… how do you say it? Relevant!! Finally I’ve found
something which helped me. Kudos!